Yamaha CRW-F1

Hello,
I read somewhere on this forum (think it was spath who mentioned it) that if one figured out how the Yamaha CRW-F1 was controlled when burning pictures to a disc one could pretty much copy any protection. As I see it there are two ways of doing this:

  1. Either reverse the firmware/applications.
  2. Contact Yamaha and get the info on how to do it.

Ok before people flame away here let me explain. Point number one requires more effort and skill and could be very time-consuming also even if you understand how to controll it implementing this so as to bypass protections is another matter. Then there is the issue of legality.

On the other hand point 2 is the easy way. Think of it. The only application to support the DiscT@2 at the moment is Nero (to my knowledge). What this obviously means is that Ahead have been given the needed documentation to do this so any of the bigger developers of burning software should be able to get it too. I mean Yamaha cannot really deny them this as it would be limiting the groth and implementation of their own products. Also I bet that if this was implemented by say Elby, but more as a backup method rather than a silly art on cd exercise (again my opinion) then that would most certainly boost Yamaha sales. Then again that is supposing that the standard way of controlling the burner could be modified in such a way as to have a positive effect on cd backups. Just a though.

// swede_242

If I am not mistaken you still need to hack the firmware in order to use this disct@2 feature while writing data. Btw: I am pretty sure that Yamaha doesn’t want problems with copyright protection organisations…

>> If I am not mistaken you still need to hack the firmware in order to use this disct@2 feature while writing data. Btw: I am pretty sure that Yamaha doesn’t want problems with copyright protection organisations…
<<

Some interesting comments but I’m not certain you need to hack the firmware to be able to write the data becuase pictures can be of any form. I do not think the firware will complain about the way the data it is writing is arranged whether it be in the form of a picture or “valid data”, I don’t think it even makes that distiction. However I guess you have considerations like correct TOC, leadin leadout etc but that would not be the concern of the firmware rather of the modified program. But then again I am just guessing…

I am not sure they will get problems with copyright organisations. I mean all they are doing is giving out documentation on how to implement their DiscT@2. If someone uses this information and takes it one step further Yamaha can not be held responsible. Even if they do get some grief there is no legal ground for the “copyright organisations” to stand on… not in Europe anyhow where one is allowed to backup discs one has bought.

// swede_242

burning pictures and burning efm bit patterns seem pretty different to me. i wager the disct@2 isnt prepared to make such little patterns too - but i need to study it more.

I don’t think Yamaha will get into problems with Copy protection companies.

Lite-On & Asus burners have been allowing copy protections to be backed up for a long time now. Did heard of them, getting into litigations with any Copy protection company.

swede_242 is right. Don’t think the firmware will have to be hacked. The program implementing the DiscT@2 feature can do the processing & just give the required raw data or data in the format required by the DiscT@2 chipset to the burner to burn.

This can be a very big new feature in CCD.:bigsmile:

“I read somewhere on this forum (think it was spath who mentioned it) that if one figured out how the Yamaha CRW-F1 was controlled when burning pictures to a disc one could pretty much copy any protection”

If I remember correctly, it is AMQ feature, not DiscT@2 feature which would be helpful.

There must be more writers with this technique on the market, otherwise I doubt that a burn-software developer would do an implementation that e.g. allows to write different data-sector densities directly on the fly.

What was about burn-proof technique some years ago?
Sanyo was first, I think, then the others came fast afterwards (with a different designation).

The main points are :
Is this already remunerative for someone?
And what´s about Yamahas rights on it?

> I read somewhere on this forum (think it was
> spath who mentioned it) that if one figured
> out how the Yamaha CRW-F1 was controlled
> when burning pictures to a disc one could
> pretty much copy any

It was venom, not me, and the feature is AMQ,
not Disct@2. Use the the search engine for
pete’s sake !

you have to admit though, spath, if he drops your name as the one who stated it first - it adds a lot of weight to it. so long as you really did say it :wink:

@spath.
Sorry should have used the search engine… for Pete’s sake, or John, or yours maybe ;)… Anyhow now that I have your attention wouldn’t it be possible to use the Disct@2 feature as it seems to be able to write to the disc in rather non-standard ways (again as I do not exactly how the technique works I am only guessing/thinking out loud here). When it comes to AMQ that I see how it could be beneficial as the whole purpose of the technique is to prevent or mimimize timing inaccuracy and from what I have read so far “timing” is an essential part of the SecuROM protection.

Anyhow since Ahead supports this feature as well then they must have seen some documentation about it. Also as Vaira said (it was Vaira right… yeah check got the name right this time :wink: ) I believe that technology needs some time to mature and gain popularity before developers start adopting it for other uses than the intended one. On the other hand Ahead have already adopted it why wouldn’t Elby. Well enough blabbering.

P.S. I probably misposted and maybe this thread should be moved as it’s not really a technical one and more a speculative discussion.

// swede_242

> wouldn’t it be possible to use the Disct@2
> feature as it seems to be able to write to the
> disc in rather non-standard ways (again as I
> do not exactly how the technique works I am
> only guessing/thinking out loud here).

Securom is about density while I would think
that Disct@2 has more to do with laser power,
but to be sure should look at Nero.

I am looking into, and trying to understand, the workings of Disct@2 now. I was kindly pointed to this link on another forum (thanks disavowed :slight_smile: ). Here it is for anyone who is interested in at least some details.

http://www.yamahamultimedia.com/yec/tech/discta2_01.asp

// swede_242

So dear cHeCksUm you are now sure that
Disct@2 cannot help with Securom. :slight_smile:

hehe… I know nutin’ ;).

Never looked at cd recording before but like reversing challenges so I thought I’d look into the more physical side of SecuROM. However I have just started and the art of burning bits onto cds and it is a rather more complex procedure than I first thought… so I have a lot of reading to do before I can assume anything (not that I don’t trust you ;), just like figuring things out for myself). Sadly the link wasn’t overly informative… I was looking for a bit more technical info. Well I’m off to read some more. Nice chatting with you.

// swede_242 aka cHeCksUm… amongst others things…