Writing Quality: PX712A vs NEC3500 Comparison

Well, here we are :wink:

As I’ve promissed in the FW1.05 thread, here’s my comparison between my new NEC3500 and the handpicked unit no 4 (PX712A).

PX712A: FW1.05
NEC3500: FW2.16 (the drive came with this one), so I’ll keep it for the innitial testing … but I’ll upgrade afterwards to FW2.C8 (TDB) which is the newest and allows DVD+R bitsetting by default.

TRAXDATA 8x DVD-R, RITEKG05

On PX712: I cannot provide a PIPO scan as both unit no 3 and now unit no 4 refuse to write this media even at 2x. After few seconds I get a “Write Error at 25. Error Writing Lead In (code 037201)” in Plextools or a “session fixation error” in NERO. I will provide instead a FETE scan which I did a while ago. Acording to Plextools this is good media which can be written at 8x, but yet, it will not even write it at 2x! :Z

On NEC3500: Written @8x

Well, surprise surprise, this is not bad media after all :rolleyes:

TDK 4x DVD-R, TTG01

On PX712:

Result at 8x:

Result at 6x:

On NEC3500: Written @8x

Well, here it is proven once more … TDK media is good quality media, and it burns just fine on the right burner :wink:

Bulkpaq 8x DVD-R, ProdiscS04

On PX712: Written @8x

This media used to write with PIE < 50 with drive no 3.

On NEC3500: Written @8x

Well, well … I guess it must be drive no 4 after all … as the NEC writes this media with the same good results I use to get with drive no 3 :wink:

Yes indeed, I’ve switched to Burst Testing. I haven’t showed the POE on the graph as I would have had to rescale it and as such loose the PIE details, but I have saved both versions on my comp, so if you wish I can post the graph showing the POE together with the PIE as well …

I have checked and the burst scan does not influence the PIE results at all. I’ve did a SUM8 scan and compared it with a Burst scan for the same disc, and the results were almost identical with respect to the PIE. The only difference for burst scans is that now you have an idea of the POE errors as well …

PS. All my scans are set to High Quality, both for SUM8 graphs and Burst graphs.

NO, you were right :slight_smile:

Well, what can I say? I’m very happy so far with my new NEC3500. :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

This set of results just shows that is not always the media to blame!!! And now I can write well all this media, with compliments to NEC :wink:

I’ll update the FW to 2.C8 TDB, so I can bitset DVD+R’s, and then do some more testing, including on TY media. And according to CDRInfo.com NEC will release FW2.18 on Monday :slight_smile:
Although the direct NEC support is rather poor from what I’ve heard, the fact that you can use a lot of diferent FW’s from different NEC OEM partners, bringing new strategies all the time, plus the enthusiast support from Liggy, TDB, Herrie and others is just GREAT :bow: :bow: :bow: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Did I mentioned that I’m happy? :wink: I think I did! :iagree:

I’ll publish a new bunch of results tomorow.

Hi cvs,

Hehe… I cleared my previous post because I was not sure… :wink:
(I understand the reasons why they disabled the ‘delete’ feature, but it was so handy!)
Keep on with the good work…

I also received my 3500 today! I have burned a MCC-03 at 8x using
Maddog 2.F8 firmware, and the result is really nice (well, of course the media also is nice :bigsmile: ).

Let’s see how the upcoming 716A will compete with this little monster… :rolleyes:

Regards,

ET

Oops, I’ve almost forgotten to ask you…
Are you happy with the new drive? LOL

Thanks CVS

I am a little suprised you did not tell the burn times of each!!!

But from your testing, I am even more happier with my 708A and 712A, those results from both burner’s just look terrible to me, I would not be happy with any of them or am I just a little bit spoiled :wink:

Just awwfullllllll,

CVS… all friends here agreed that all four of your 712a are bad, including this one… so I don’t think it’s fair to compare YOUR 712a with the new 3500. Send your media to me and compare your 3500 with my 712a!! :bigsmile: :bigsmile:

I see that only your TDK is in the recommended list, so here’s a fresh-from-the-oven-scan of a TDK (RICOH) +R 4x @8x

Disc Regions are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
Media code/Manufacturer ID RICOHJPNR01
Media Product Revision Number 02h
Format Type UDF 1.02
Volume Name DVD_VIDEO
Application id
Implementation id DVD Shrink
Recording Date/Time (mm/dd/yyyy) 10/14/2004 13:04:14
Format Capacity 4.36GB(4.68GB)
Book Type DVD-ROM
Media Type DVD+R
Manufacturer Rated Speed 4.0x 5540KBps
Data area starting sector 30000h
Data area end sector 22E1EFh
Linear Density 0.267um/bit
Track Density 0.74um/track
Number of Layers 1

Complete Media Code
00000000 08 02 00 00 01 0F 02 00 00 03 00 00 00 26 05 3F …&.?
00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 52 49 43 4F 48 4A 50 4E 52 …RICOHJPNR
00000020 30 31 02 38 23 54 37 09 00 3C 67 00 AC 62 16 18 01.8#T7…<g…b…
00000030 0B 0B 0A 0B 01 19 1B 0B 0B 0E 0F 01 00 00 00 00 …


@ zevia

Now that’s a burn :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Yes I agree with Zevia! Here is a scan (Burst mode) of TDK DVD+R 4X byrned at 4X.

Drive Info ID:0 PLEXTOR DVDR PX-712A V1.05 (#116616)
Test Settings Read Speed: 2X CLV
Test Interval Length: High Accuracy
Test Result Disc Info: BACKUP_150204 DVD+R, 4309 MB (BACKUP_150204) RICOHJPN R01 02

Avg Max Total
PIE 0.07 11 9650
POE 0.04 125 5817
POF - - 0

Test Duration 0:27:05


Uhm… so I am not the only one getting those weird POE spikes using burst mode… :rolleyes:

Regards,

ET

Can anyone define the POE and what is the “level” to consider bad?
ie PIE > 280 = bad

… POF > 0 = bad, cause data is damaged :slight_smile:

Writing Times for NEC3500:

TDK TTG01 @8x = 9:43
Bulkpaq ProdiscS04 @8x = 9:42
Traxdata RITEKG05 @8x - sorry I’ve forgot to write this one down … but probably the time is very close to the above.

Yes, NEC3500 is not as quick as PX712A for 8x writing, because is using the ZCLV writing mode: it starts at 4x, jumps to 6x (at about 25% of the disc) and then just after the middle of the disc finally jumps again to 8x. Besides the ZCLV writing, roughly at each 0.5Gb, the drive slows down briefly when the WOPC kicks in to check the quality of the disc.

Frankly, I don’t care too much about the writing speed … if I get better quality I’m more than happy to trade 1-2 minutes per disc … but that’s just me and clearly others will have a different opinion …

For 6x or 4x writing, the drive uses the same strategy as PX712A. For 12x writing, depending on the writing strategy, some discs use 13x CAV, and the writing time is about 7:14 min. Other discs use 12x ZCLV, and the writing time is about 6:45 min. At 16x, the drive uses the CAV writing mode, and the writing time is between 5:50 - 6:20 depending on the disc. These numbers depend on the media type; also sometimes WOPC kicks in and reduces the speed if that’s deemed necessary.

So clearly, in some cases Plextor is quicker … however, ZCLV writing has its own advantages … if you write 8x media, or overspeed media, since about half of the disc is written at lower than or at the certified disc speed, that half of the disc will have significantly lower PIE errors!!!

You can see that very clearly on TTG01 media … the 4x and 6x region has much lower PIE than the 8x area, due to the lower writing speed. As such, asumming that both units will write equally well at 8x, and you’ll write the same disc on the Plextor, the NEC results will be always better in terms of the overall PIE, because for NEC the PIE in the first half of the disc will be smaller due to the lower writing speed. Of course, you pay for this priviledge by waiting a bit longer for the burn to complete :wink:

Regarding your last comment … you are a very difficult man to please :wink:

I think HAMP will disagree with that … I think he still believes there’s something wrong with my computer and all my four drives were good :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile:

The question was about POE not POF…

POE should be below 4 I think… :confused:

I think that would be for PIF…

Yeah… I looked over your scans again. You got to admit that even your 3500 does not burn “excelente”. No scan below 20 all the way (or below 15? :bigsmile: ). Your final test is to show us TY, MCC, or RICOH with max speed (4x @8x or 8x @12x). If your nec can’t do it, then it’s probably your computer :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:… or bad 3500 ??? :bigsmile:. Guys… do you think CVS will go for four 3500??:bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: