Win10 or BIOS Problem

vbimport

#1

Around a week ago a problem occurred while booted to Win10 on a dual boot Win10/WinXP system that has WinXP on one hard drive and Win10 on the other hard drive. It gave “Windows encountered a problem and must restart” error message. Upon restart “NTLDR is missing” message was given. By booting to Bart PE CD I learned the hard drive boot order had been switched and had to reset the boot order in order to boot Windows. The 2 hard drives are identical, exact same size and same model Seagate drives. That same problem recurred today. Is this a Win10 problem or a BIOS problem, and would switching one of the hard drives to a different model help? Since the problem occurred while booted to Win10, I suspect it’s more likely a Win10 issue. Also I never had this kind of problem when I was using Win8.1. Has anybody had this problem with Win10 or know how to fix the problem?


#2

So you have to go into the BIOS & set it to boot off the correct hard drive (change the boot order) there?


My guess would be that there’s an unrelated Windows 10 issue.

This issue makes Windows 10 want to try to repair itself on the next boot (or at least makes it try to take note of what happened).

Then Windows 10 tries to ‘update’ the bootloader and mucks things up. But I’m not sure.


#3

[QUOTE=Albert;2782213]So you have to go into the BIOS & set it to boot off the correct hard drive (change the boot order) there?


My guess would be that there’s an unrelated Windows 10 issue.

This issue makes Windows 10 want to try to repair itself on the next boot (or at least makes it try to take note of what happened).

Then Windows 10 tries to ‘update’ the bootloader and mucks things up. But I’m not sure.[/QUOTE]

This is what I do, but my drives are different, SSD/HDD so it is easy to tell the difference in BIOS. I used what I’m going to link to before I used what Albert said. This is only an option and if you are not comfortable with it, don’t use it, but I think it is good information on what goes on.

I know Windows 10 is not mentioned, but I don’t think there is much difference.


#4

Yes, I have to set the correct boot order in the BIOS, and Windows 10 does try to repair itself on the next boot. Since that occurred everything loads extremely slowly for about 10 minutes after boot, and Zonealarm fails to start. Also going to the Pandora radio page seems to cause system lockup after a while. I think I need to restore a backup image that was created before the problems in order to correct these issues began.

It sounds like EasyBCD is simply a boot loader not unlike ones created by Linux when Linux is installed on a system that already has Windows running. This seems like a good solution to me if it works reliably. Can Easy BCD be removed if problems are encountered? Disk Management shows Win10 is on Disk 0 and WinXP is on Disk 1. I wonder if switching the SATA cable connections to the motherboard which would then make WinXP on Disk 0 and Win10 on Disk1 might stop the problem from occurring, or is EasyBCD a better solution?


#5

I have used EasyBCD, but I’m no pro. I would wait for somebody who is a little more familiar with the program. I know I posted it in the Freebies Galore thread and Xercus posted with more information. I had your problem a while ago with Win10 & Win7, but I can’t remember how I fixed it, getting old I guess. I think I ended up reinstalling 7 and restoring 10 from a backup, but I still go into BIOS to boot into either one. I know I wouldn’t have just went to that without trying some other stuff first.


#6

There are 3 pages at this link, please read through it all, it will be worth it. A lot of this is crap but the good stuff was familiar to me, I just don’t think I got it at this site. Good luck.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-update/not-loaded-windows-10-ntldr-is-missing/3e1bfc3d-b78b-428a-ae9a-6d5af980e5bd?page=1


#7

[QUOTE=beef barley;2782329]I have used EasyBCD, but I’m no pro. I would wait for somebody who is a little more familiar with the program. I know I posted it in the Freebies Galore thread and Xercus posted with more information. I had your problem a while ago with Win10 & Win7, but I can’t remember how I fixed it, getting old I guess. I think I ended up reinstalling 7 and restoring 10 from a backup, but I still go into BIOS to boot into either one. I know I wouldn’t have just went to that without trying some other stuff first.[/QUOTE]
You say you have used EasyBCD but also say “I still go into BIOS to boot into either one.” Do you mean you no longer use Easy BCD to dual boot?

All the posters in the link from reply #6 talk about problems booting due to NTLDR missing, and a few of them say the problem happened after Windows update. I know Windows update isn’t an issue because I have Automatic Updates disabled. In both my instances the “Sorry, Windows has encountered a problem and must restart” is given first, and the “NTLDR is missing” is given upon restart. This seems to me to indicate the hard drive boot order switch occurs while Windows is running some how. That being the case I don’t even know whether using Easy BCD instead of boot.ini to dual boot will solve the problem. I believe it is a Win10 problem and reverting to Win8.1 may be the only lasting fix.


#8

I’m curious. In the setup you have, can you disconnect the hard drive w/ Windows 10 and still boot XP? Or do you have to have the Win10 HDD connected to boot to WinXP?


#9

You say you have used EasyBCD but also say “I still go into BIOS to boot into either one.” Do you mean you no longer use Easy BCD to dual boot?
Since Windows 10 I go into BIOS and change the order of the hard drives to the one I want to boot into. I no longer use EasyBCD, but not because it did not work, just my preference.

PROBLEM SOLVED!!! Ok, so it’s a bit complicated but here is what worked:

On my laptop that was still working, I searched for the “Windows 10 Media Creation Tool” which brought me to the MS website to download their tool. I downloaded it and created a 64-bit Windows 10 bootable DVD using the MS utility that is built-in to the creation tool. That was the easy part. My particular situation was made more difficult due to my motherboard. I have an advanced board that support UEFI devices or legacy. I had this problem when I first built the box where the BIOS stopped recognizing my HDD and kept jumping back in to the BIOS setup and not even reading the drives. Once I solved that, I used the Windows 10 DVD and booted to it. I used the “Repair Windows” option and had it do a “Start up Scan” or whatever they call it and viola! It repaired the master boot record “MBR” and I am back up and running. I think what happened was when I originally built my box, the MBR was installed not on my primary HDD but one of the other 4 I have installed. When I originally ran the “Start Up Scan” it failed, but I think it failed because of BIOS update I did and I had reset my BIOS so the repair utility could find the MBR. Once that was done, the repair utility does work.

In layman’s terms, if you have a “normal” computer that’s not so complicated as mine, get a computer that works, create yourself a Windows 10 DVD, or borrow one from a friend, and try the Repair. For those that Repair didn’t work, odds are Windows can’t find the MBR. I hope all of this helps someone else out there.

The Startup Repair worked from the DVD\ISO but F8 was not necessary when booting to the installation DVD. Hit the “any key” to boot to the DVD. then just wait until you get the first screen with the option boxes, and Startup Repair is a link on the bottom left. One tap, one click, wait a bit, done!

2 of the last 3 posts.


#10

[QUOTE=Albert;2782369]I’m curious. In the setup you have, can you disconnect the hard drive w/ Windows 10 and still boot XP? Or do you have to have the Win10 HDD connected to boot to WinXP?[/QUOTE]
I’ve not tried that and am not sure. When I start the PC, a boot menu is displayed with choice of “Windows 10” and “Older Windows Versions” with Windows 10 as default. I think this menu is generated by the boot.ini file which is on the first partition of the boot drive with other boot files.

Today the system became very sluggish to unresponsive and displayed a message to restart to do repairs. Instead of going through that again I restored a backup image created before the problem began, and everything is working normally thus far. However, I fear the problem may recur, probably in 2 weeks or less judging by recent behavior. I’ll post back when/if it does recur.


#11

The same problem recurred 11/5/16, I again restored the Win10 image, and on the very first startup in Win10 everything was extremely slow to unresponsive which lead me to conclude it isn’t a software issue. Then I ran chkdsk /r that found no problems. Now bios boot order randomly changes or 1 of the hard drives is not detected in the bios. Next I connected sata cables to different ports on the motherboard which didn’t help. Then I ran memtest86, and memory passed tests. Finally I tested hard drives using Seagate Seatools that resulted in Disk1 passing but Disk0 failing the long generic test. Disk1 is where WinXP is installed, and Disk0 is where Win10 is installed. This probably explains why WinXP still runs normally while Win10 does not.

Will replacing the hard drive require Win10 reactivation, and will reactivation be permitted with a hard drive change?


#12

Replacing the drive didn’t require reactivation. However, about a day after replacing the drive and restoring Win10 image to the replacement drive, the PC clock was 68 minutes slow. I’m unsure whether that’s related to the drive switch or maybe a sign the cmos batter is dying. If the battery is getting weak could that cause the hard drive test to give a false bad test result?

Also copy and paste behavior is significantly altered. Using File Explorer to copy and paste used to show progress of the paste step on top of the File Explorer window, but now it’s under that window and other windows that are open. Could a weak battery cause this behavior, or what else might cause it? Has anybody seen this behavior, have any idea of the cause or know how to fix this?


#13

I’ve never seen that behavior. Then again, I’m not sure how it’s supposed to be by default. Are you sure an update hasn’t occurred somewhere along the way?

Edit: actually, my copy/paste operations also open in the background. That might be the new default.

Still not sure about your time issue. Could it be a result of both operating systems trying to handle Daylight Savings Time (time set back by 1 hour more than it should) + a slightly slow clock or bad synchronization with the time servers (the extra 8 minutes)?


#14

Is there a way to change that default behavior? That’s a ludicrous default imo because one must minimize open windows to see progress of the activity.

Time Service in WinXP is disabled which should cause no issue for trying to handle Daylight Savings Time. Today the PC clock still has correct time since it was reset yesterday which leads me to believe it might be somehow due to the drive swtich taht was done.


#15

[QUOTE=bevills1;2783722]Is there a way to change that default behavior? That’s a ludicrous default imo because one must minimize open windows to see progress of the activity.[/QUOTE]
Have you ever set it so that different Explorer (File Manager, NOT Internet Explorer) windows open in a separate process?


#16

[QUOTE=bevills1;2783722]Is there a way to change that default behavior? That’s a ludicrous default imo because one must minimize open windows to see progress of the activity.

Time Service in WinXP is disabled which should cause no issue for trying to handle Daylight Savings Time. Today the PC clock still has correct time since it was reset yesterday which leads me to believe it might be somehow due to the drive swtich taht was done.[/QUOTE]
I would not have any idea as to how to change the behavior, I check my taskbar :wink:

Hmm, it does not add up. It simply has nothing to do with harddrive which would be more prone to timing signal and breaking havoc there should not affect system time? I think the assumption has to be false somehow (no offense) :flower:

Fwiw, A bare essentials fix windows 10 primer:

For any FUBAR windows that will boot to windows one way or the other, just do an upgrade to the same version, it will actually let you do that and in that you basically have your old familiar repair install. I have not yet done this for the 1607 edition, but unless they changed it…

Then for registry errors like BAD_SYSTEM_CONFIG and other ‘interesting’ messages related to registry, still causing your windows to not boot, windows actually has you covered if system restore is enabled (I ‘believe’ it to be linked to that, never actually checked, only found that it is not always present). If you find the repair-boot from install media to fail on your restore points or otherwise, look at this path:

C:\Windows\System32\config

Notice the subfolder ‘RegBack’? In there you will find a previous version of all registry databases found in the parent ‘config’ folder which should be
[ul]
[li]DEFAULT
[/li][li]SAM
[/li][li]SECURITY
[/li][li]SOFTWARE
[/li][li]SYSTEM
[/li][/ul]

The only thing apart from this is your user NTUSER.DAT, but you are logging in before that kicks in and so it should not be a reason for windows not booting.

Make a backup of the ones in the config folder, then delete them from the original C:\Windows\System32\config’ location .Now copy the ones found in ‘C:\Windows\System32\config\RegBack’ to ‘C:\Windows\System32\config’, reboot the system and see if it worked.

Now that was two ‘last resort’ solutions which would probably apply to your scenario where the last one can be performed only by command line found in advanced recovery options or by hooking up the HD in another computer/laptop.

On a general scale though, you would want to act as much as possible before it gets to this. Before large updates and if you notice slow behavior, run this from an administrative command line:

    sfc /scannow
If it is unable to repair, run this:
    DISM.exe /online /Cleanup-image /Scanhealth
If it says it is repairable, run this:
    DISM.exe /online /Cleanup-image /Restorehealth

More info
     http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=243077
     The DISM log file can be found at C:\windows\Logs\DISM\dism.log

Personally I have never found sfc /scannow to fix anything, but it is a recommended step. DISM on the other hand is a great addition to later OSes which you should take time to learn.


#17

In this instance the issue turned out to be a bad drive, and I’d have saved a lot of time and effort by testing the memory and drives first which I’ll definitely do next time similar problems arise. Running sfc /scannow and other software fixes won’t fix bad hardware problems but may prove useful once hardware issues are fixed or eliminated a the possible cause.