Why do people still continue to DL lossy crap and risk litigation?



Whoo… there bucko! Last time i looked “golfnut” was not the author of this thread.Also who said i was addressing you!The topic at hand was about a issue not a person.I have no gripe with you today.You are betrayed by your emotions!

Free your mind!


Great advice golfnut, I did insulate all walls and ceiling. The power is on a dedicated grounded circuit. I can change out the outlets easy enough.

But I looked at CRT projectors and the cost. Whew, did I mention I was married and would like to continue the arrangement? If I was looking in the right places those darn things are like 30 grand. :eek:

When you have time, would you be so kind as to give your opinion of this
Toshiba MT500 DLP projector ? I sure would appreciate it. :slight_smile:

Feel free to use my dan(no spam)@(no spam)cdfreaks.com addy. I shouldn’t discuss this here. I believe this subject is so far off optical drives that maybe you can suggest a forum or site that will be of help to me. I don’t want to re-invent the wheel it’s too expensive. This area is very complex also.

Thank you in advance.



Hi Crabby, my apologies for the delayed reply, I have been out of town on business. Although I have no personal experience with the Toshiba unit I am listing a website below which I highly recommend and use quite often for my video questions. I am quite sure you will probably be able to get several opinions here on this unit.

Yes CRT projectors are expensive but I “carefully buy” used projectors which run in the 3-5.000 dollar range for a 30-40,000 dollar projector. You just need to know who you are buying from. I will tell you that the general consensus of those “in the know” will tell you that a properly and professionally calibrated CRT projector will blow aware the picture quality of any LCD projector. Keep me posted on how you progress, my email address is [email]By the way I tried the email address you sent me in your post but I do not think it worked for some reason. Let me know if it did and I will continue using it until of improperly using this forum for our future discussions. Have a great day.



Hi golfnut,

I figured you were on the road. Did you remove the nospam from the addy? I am trying to avoid spambots. Heh, I am also on comcast so I will email you with my home address and we can use that instead. I am very interested to learn how to obtain a CRT projector at the price point you mention. I saw one demoed at a Marvin Electronic store while living in Texas years ago. They played “Independance Day” it blew away the local state of the art public theaters. The guy said he had a used projector, I asked how much and he said 20 grand. :slight_smile: So I know you are right about the quality, I just figured there was no way I could ever obtain one due to “she who must be obeyed” lol.

Thank you for your help,



Very simple answer:

Quality: MP3 Quality can be excellent if it’s done with the correct encoder–A few years ago I compressed maybe 80 cds with AUDIOCATALYST, at 128 KB, and I spent hours comparing song segments–I even put the original CD in a Pro quality NEC CD player and did A/B comparisons with excellent quality headphones, and in only one instance I heard a very slight diffference in a segment that lasted about 2 seconds of very wide-range sound (like noise) where I felt there was some slight loss in the 128 MP3. At the time I was also testing an early version of AAC, and in the 128 AAC I didn’t hear that loss. However it was so minor and so short and so hard to detect that I stuck with MP3–AAC isn’t a standard. Other encoders I tried were much worse–Even the “professional” quality encoder (I forget the name at the moment-but it was acclaimed) didn’t sound too good to me–I just found the Audiocatalyst to be perfect.

Sure you can download some bad sounding MP3s–lots of them, but usually if the bitrate is high like 160 and up the quality is pretty good. And most people don’t even listen under “IDEAL” conditions–most people know nothing about quality an use crummy tin-ear headphone–how come all those $1 bargain store “COBY” headphones and such sell at all? I mean I could make better sounding headphones from a freakin’ TUNA CAN and some speaker wire and a magnet! So obviously many people are not big time audiophiles. People listen outside, in their cars where there’s a lot of noise too. Heck many people still listen to tapes and some people think records are the best! So go figure!


Be realistic here–you do sound like you work for the record industry. There are maybe 60 million people who use KAZZA, and the record industry can only sue a few hundred or a few thousand–so do the math. Besides now it’s much harder for them to sue anybody becuause last month Verizon won their case and a federal judge decided that record companies cannot obtain names and addresses through a court clerk but they must actually file using the accepted procedure which is slow and expensive. So they only got a couple hundred names because of some legal confusion which got corrected now.

So the chance of being sued by the RIAA is like maybe winning the lottery or being hit by lightning. I don’t think people are too worried about that–heck how many people smoke and drink and they know well that this is going to kill them and is making them sick and stupid but they keep doing it anyway? Most people don’t really like to think too much about consequences–they just do what they feel like at the moment. If something happens later they say “oh shit! why did I do THAT?! What was I thinking”. So you ain’t gonna change human nature.

Finally I think that $1.00 per song (hehe, ok, 99 cents!) is still a lot to pay for something that you may not really like or only listen to a few times and shows how greedy the RIAA really is. There is no reason in the world why an MP3 should cost that much when it doesn’t cost almost anything to make it available compared to the cost of making CDs (not much–but still much more) and stocking them on store shelves (now that’s really expensive). They would charge $5 a song if they thought it would sell as well.

Listening to music on the radio is free, and many people used to tape songs–I used to do it as a kid. Why should listening to songs on your computer be any different? Who cares what the audio quality is? These songs get boring soon anyway. I have a whole bunch of CDs sitting somehwere that I only listened to a couple times, maybe even 10 times and never again.

How about if you were charged by the minute to be online? This is the way it is in many parts of the world. That would suck big time wouldn’t it. All these things do is let a few assholes stuff their fat wallets with everybody’s money. Note that only like .10 ccents goes to the artists of that $1. Maybe the artists should setup paypal accounts so the fans that like their songs can send whatever they like for the songs they listen to directly to them? Now that would be revolutionary. We can’t assume the world is composed mostly of thieves!

Some things to think about…



Oh, that famous encoder was the Frauhoffer one. It was considered so great–but I heard a lot of artifacts at 128K with it. Strange.

Also, I didn’t make it clear that people all over the world use Kazza, so the RIAA can’t really do anything to anyone outside of the U.S.A. so they don’t worry about that.

Another thing is that the RIAA is just a bunch of bigheaded bullies who think they can impose their will on the world. The internet has make the FREE exchange of information easier than ever, and trying to stamp out copying of things through scare tactics isn’t going to get anyone anywhere. If they are so worried they should find another business like making sneakers… Heheheh…



Hi Tekwiz,

Thank you for the well thought out and polite reply. I agree with most what you say. Even the record executive part. :wink:

I believe you and Teklord are correct, I have thought about this for many weeks and think this is a result of human nature. It’s funny, I had brought the analogy of smoking up in my own mind… good one. Here is another, parachuting out of an airplane- it’s fun and it will probably open saving your ass. People do it all the time.

The only difference is in both these analogies is…it isn’t illegal, but these people are risk takers. Just like Filesharers.

So I think we can expect some people to continue to share music regardless of any tactics put forth by the RIAA. It is human nature. :slight_smile:


Thanks very much for your thoughtful reply ~Crabby! It encouraged me to write some more!

As I was reading your reply, and before I reached the end, I thought about how people break the speed limit all the time and risk a ticket. As I finished I saw your little joke about driving faster/slower. Which leads me to the following, plus more…

Smoking and parachuting are pretty extreme risks compared to filesharing. People take TREMENDOUS risks every day. Driving a car is highly dangerous. In Israel the numbers killed by suicide bombers pales in comparison to those killed in car accidents–I think that last week 15 were killed, and hundreds injured in car accidents. I believe that in the U.S. about 6 people are killed in car accidents every HOUR! That’s 136 a day and 50,000 a year! :frowning:

So out of 60 million filesharers, the RIAA can sue a few hundred. The chances of winning the various lotteries are MUCH better than that! And people play for years and don’t win or never win. Going to Vegas your chances are much better of making some nice profit. :bigsmile:

The truth is that due to the sheer numbers involved, suing individuals is nothing more than a publicity stunt to get their voices heard and hoping that they will make their message clearer–that this is immoral and illegal and hurts artists and people who work in the industry “even the janitor”. :confused:

They also hope it will scare people who don’t know how slim the odds are. At the same time they know it’s bad business to attack their potential customer base, so they say that they are specifically targeting those who have a lot of songs on their drives. ie. “The bad people.” Realistically, a lot of people have a lot of songs on their drives–in fact the more they download the more songs become available–usually the download directory is the shared directory. So they hope that at minimum those that use the system a lot will get scared and remove the songs from their shared directory, and thus, if you get rid of the majority of available (shared) songs, the system will die by itself. This isn’t too realistic because most computer users have so little knowledge of these “technical details” they won’t do a thing. :rolleyes:

They also hope that their protests will convince the government to create very tough laws which would help them, and also bring about more advanced technology to help stomp this out. (For example, this relates to Microsoft’s/Intel’s plans for a “Secure computing platform” (ie. Paladium) which will give them full control over what your computer will run or not–through hardware! (Only certified files/apps will work–making your PC into a sort of Sony Playstation). Of course this greatly conflicts with hardware makers marketing hype about computers making it so easy to copy content! :bigsmile:

Hehehe, I can’t forget the recent infomercial I saw on ShopMSNBC where they were pushing a Sony VIAO system and making a big point that DVD X COPY Professional comes with the system, and you can so easily make a “backup copy” of your DVDs and mentioned you really shouldn’t run out to your video rental store and make copies of the DVDs you rent. Don’t forget that Sony is the owner of Paramount, so there’s a “self-conflict of interest” for you! :rolleyes:

The FCC is already putting an encryption standard into HDTV which will let the broadcaster decide if you can tape the show or not! This standard will be mandatory for all manufactured HDTV devices. Why are the doing this? The FCC wants to ensure that the fear that people will copy and trade TV programs will scare off broadcasters and possibly end commercial-on the air free TV. Yeah, what a disaster–“Friends” will be traded on the net and this will cause NBC to quit broadcasting… Hehehehe. And oh, yeah, digitizing will be impossible (not), and “Friends” is only useful in high-resolution. (No, I do not watch this show–it’s just an example of worthless programming on NBC) :Z

Well, to finish off, here are some statistics with the chances of being killed in Israel vs. other countries, and a chart: (WEAR THOSE SEATBELTS ALL THE TIME!!!) :eek:





Hey Tek,

I will read the links later. I am tired right now. Although the legal campaign has an overall chilling effect on file sharing. Take a look at the main page news story about file sharing- it’s up 14% in the last quarter of 2003. Lol

~Crabby :wink:


I am not sure if we should believe that the number of people downloading is going down.

LOts of people are getting high speed connections and most ask how they can download stuff. PErhaps in the usa the number of people drop, but i am not sure about europe and so on.


Oh I agree damiandimitri. I should have clarified that last statement by saying a “chilling effect on filesharing in the US”. After all, it is perfectly legal in some countries, i.e. Canada to download copyrighted material all day long. You just can’t upload or share.

In a recent article at Yahoo! they back up your suspicions by saying:

“Recent industry statistics reveal that file-sharing is on the decline in the United States but increasing in Europe since the RIAA embarked on its legal campaign four months ago.”




i always had a good feeling…lol

serious…if i was in the usa …i would be scared too. Not sure what a cd costs in the us, but i know they cost a lot where i life. That is the main reason download here. ANd downloading is still “allowed” here.


I don’t believe that these statistics are really accurate. As I keep saying only a fool would be scared of being caught by the RIAA due to the amount of people filesharing. Out of 60 million filesharers–300 lawsuits? Miniscule chance. Much better chance of being killed in an auto accident.

Now the RIAA can’t even get the names easily or quickly–they have to go before a judge and prove they should get the name, and only if they get a warrant can they go to the ISP. We haven’t heard of any more prosecutions in a couple of months.

The RIAA suing people by sniffing around the internet is the equivalent of planting video cameras in every home and making sure people don’t record songs off the radio or tape TV shows, or give their friends copies. It’s a joke. It’s too expensive to keep going through the court system, and is nothing more than a disgusting publicity stunt.

The RIAA was actually asking congress permission to allow them to HACK INTO PEOPLES COMPUTERS and DELETE WHATEVER THEY WANT and even DAMAGE their computers to TEACH THEM A LESSON! These rich dudes are RABID!!!

You can also download all the albums you like off the NEWSGROUPS with no risk at all.

You were wondering: A CD in the U.S. is about $15 more or less. A blank CD is $.25. In perspective the minimum wage is like $6 an hour, and the average wage is around $10 an hour.



ty tek…

i don’t think the prices of a cd differ so much from here.

I agree…the chance to get hunted down by the riaa is small, but still scary if you hear what you have to pay them.

Most people don’t have that kind of money to spend


Originally posted by damiandimitri
[B]ty tek…


I agree…the chance to get hunted down by the riaa is small, but still scary if you hear what you have to pay them.

Most people don’t have that kind of money to spend [/B]

You say the chance is “small”. Well as I’m saying statistically it’s much smaller than winning the lottery, or getting killed in a car crash. Still, when people get into a car they don’t spend any time thinking about how dangerous it is.

Recent studies show that smoking a cigarette shortens a person’s life by about 8 minutes. That’s a pretty big price, but people don’t think about how bad it is to smoke, or drink, etc. How about the huge hospital/drug bills people have to pay for doing these kind of unhealthy things?

People that have a lot of money are not afraid of paying a few thousand to the RIAA. Those that don’t can’t pay that kind of money, and thus the RIAA won’t be able to collect. Also it’s a long way from being contacted by the RIAA and actually going to court and them proving you have to pay. A lot of people settled because yes, they do have the money and wanted to avoid the hassle.

Trust me, most Americans do have a few thousand bucks laying around to cover something like this–particularly those with computers, the high speed connections and the education to use a computer. This is a very rich country, and people spend money like there’s no tommorrow. It’s just obscene sometimes.




interesting…this part says more people started to download again

Trust me, most Americans do have a few thousand bucks laying around to cover something like this–particularly those with computers, the high speed connections and the education to use a computer. This is a very rich country, and people spend money like there’s no tommorrow. It’s just obscene sometimes.

are we talking about the same America?? I think as in the whle world…many people have money probs right now…due to the bad economy


Trust me, most Americans do have a few thousand bucks laying around to cover something like this–particularly those with computers, the high speed connections and the education to use a computer

No, trust me, I have a few thou and a computer and a high speed connection. I work hard for my money and would not want to give it to the RIAA. But that’s me. :stuck_out_tongue:

The number one employer in the US is McDonalds, then Walmart. Most working for these outfits (below store manager level) does not have an account tagged " In case of emergency litigation with the RIAA". Americans are suffering under a tremendous debt of taxation and rising health care costs. Also, we were stripped of our retirements thru mergers. Increasingly, people do not have any health coverage for them or their children. It is getting bad over here.

We have also experienced lately, the wonderful concept of “outsourcing” where employers over here are laying off and the position is given to someone in India or China or Mexico in the name of profits, i.e. if you cal Dell tech support you are talking to someone in India. Lately, even Mexico is experiencing job loss to China. I just read where a lady in China works 10 hours a day for 30 cents an hour assembling DVD players. We will never get those kind of jobs back. You couldn’t sell a DVD player for 29 dollars at a profit if it was manufactured in the US.

The top 10 U.S. employers based on their worldwide workforces, according to the latest data available from consulting firm D&B and company sources, where available, include:

  1. McDonald’s (MCD: news) – 1.5 million employees globally

  2. Wal-Mart (WMT: news) – 1.5 million

  3. GM (including GMAC and Hughes) (GM: news) – 341,000 excluding contractors

  4. United Parcel Service (UPS: news) – 359,000

  5. Ford Motor Company (F: news) – 350,000

  6. IBM (IBM: news) – 316,000

  7. General Electric (GE: news) – 315,000

  8. Kroger (KR: news) – 312,000

  9. Sears (S: news) – 275,000, not counting seasonal workers

  10. J.C. Penney (JCP: news) – 250,000

However, I agree there are many wealthy people here and they do like to spend money. Also, here is more mounting evidence that for whatever reason, filesharing is on the rise. At least Ars Technica and others are beginning to wonder about this issue. I find it fascinating

Sinking the Pirates

NOT FADE AWAY. What’s clear, though, is that until the music industry gets fully behind online music sales, file-swappers will flock to next-generation sites like eDonkey – which has seen 150 percent growth in the past year, according to independent tallies by both BayTSP and BigChampagne.


I’m not saying there is a huge number of people with not much money–in fact there’s many more without money than with. Still, there are plenty of extremely wealthy people–more than in other countries.

I have a friend who immigrated from Russia about 5 years ago. There, he was a physician. His wife was too. When they came here, they studied hard for a few years, got their certifications, and now he is working as an Anesthesiologist in Texas making about 400K gross. His wife is a psychiatrist also making about 200K. Educated people make a lot of money in the U.S. My cousin was a financial analyst and worked in about 3 companies–he was getting over 100K.

My friend who has a video/photography business–just started a couple years ago, gets so much work he can hardly keep up–makes around 150K gross, and the people who hire him have no problems paying 2,000-4,000 for a video and photos. Someone made a party for their daughter and spent like 30K. Yes, $30,000! on it.

So while you hear about the horrible times, plenty of people do have lots of money.

Also, the discussion here sounds as if you use a P2P program you are likely to be fingered by the RIAA and you certainly will have to pay them a few thousand. Total nonesense. The chance of even being targeted is MINISCULE, and even then ignoring them completely is usually the best route. Lawyers and courts are so damn expensive, the RIAA is too cheap to actually go to court. A lot of people are just stupid–they get a letter and immediately respond to it. It’s like the mouse and the cheese trap. Hehehe. Several people didn’t settle with the RIAA but challeged them to go to court.

The discussion here is why filesharing is going up. Simply because it’s free and fun, it’s easy to do, people don’t see anything wrong with it, many don’t even follow the news, and most people aren’t scared off so easily. If there were no brave people around there wouldn’t even be any wars.

If people were so afraid of the law there would be so many crimes, people wouldn’t be buying and selling drugs, etc. And these are true crimes, unlike listening to some music on your computer…

Oh, people would never even break the speed limit.

Now the MEDIA and the RIAA just decided that if they make some noise and break the law themselves by demanding the release of confidential information about internet users and shout and scream how it’s immoral and illegal to download some music for free, that people would be horribly scared and just quit using these services. They even resorted to distributing “JUNK FILES” with noise and cut-up songs. What a joke. So now the MEDIA has another attractive headline: “Wow! Filesharing has gone up 16% eventhough it’s ILLEGAL! Woohee! News at 6!”

It’s all a big joke is what it is.



Oh, I just thought–you say you find it “fascinating” that filesharing is on the rise. You could connect the idea that people are having bad financial times due to all the reasons you stated, and that they just don’t have the money to spend on CDs and the pay-per-download services, but they are desperate to get copies of the latest songs! Hehehe! :bigsmile:


I have a friend who immigrated from Russia about 5 years ago. There, he was a physician. His wife was too. When they came here, they studied hard for a few years, got their certifications, and now he is working as an Anesthesiologist in Texas making about 400K gross.

Damn, no wonder my insurance is so high! :stuck_out_tongue: Would y’all like a little anesthesia with that there operation pardner? :wink:

Check out the news page, (shameless plug) there is a couple stories there that might make your day! They did mine.

Have a good weekend Tek!