Who to blame....? Media companies or LITEON?

vbimport

#1

I am a proud owner of a LITEON LDW-811S as many of you are here, I’m sure :bigsmile: I produce a big volume of DVDs (transfer people’s tapes to DVDs, produce wedding DVDs, etc.etc.etc…) and I use my trusty LITEON to do the job. I originally purchased this writer because of its bitsetting support and because of the good support from the modding community, although personally I have not modded my burner yet…

Producing many DVDs, I come across different kinds of medias. Throughout time, using my LITEON I have come to read about many complaints people are having about this burner, concerning average to poor quality DVD burns compared to other writers.

Personally I have always used RICOHJPNR01 made discs and it seems to be the one producing the best results on my LITEON811, although not outstanding results but well within specs (15 to 60 PI counts towards beginning to middle of media, and up to 130-180 tops towards the end of the media…) PO counts pretty low, with averages of 200 total count for whole media, and individual POs never being more than 2, so well within specs.
So far all RICOHJPN based media have played on all DVD players tested.

I have had my burner for 7 months now and notice that media being sold now is getting cheaper, and at the same time worse in quality ! Even the RICOHJPN discs are variable in quality. I noticed that RICOHJPNR01 used on MEMOREX brand DVD+Rs have a much higher PI/PO chart than the Maxell discs with RICOHJPN (personally I found the Maxell DVD+R RICOHPJN to be the best!).

Now what angers me is that I am forced to shop around to find media that my LITEON likes, and those RICOHJPN discs are pretty hard to find now, and you never know what you get when you buy those medias, whether in boxes or spindles !

MEMOREX was once a decent company, they used RICOHJPNR01, now they have switched to CMC F01, which is utter CRAP and juseless junk if you burn a full disc, as most start with decent PI/PO and get severely worse towards the end !

MAXELL used RICOHJPN, with some of the best scores, and now they too have switched to RITEK02, the crappiest of the whole lot ! (reading below)

So I am stuck now… KODAK is crap, SONY is crap, MEMOREX is crap, MAXELL is variable, MITSUMI is crap, e3works is crap, in other words if it ain’t TAYO YUDEN or RICOHJPN, forget it, and those 2 are pretty damn hard… Even VERBATIM now have become CRAP, they also use more of CMC and MCC (mitsubishi CRAP company) - they too had overall good media, now are crap!

So question is… Is LITEON run by IDIOTS who need to be collectively sued for several millions $ and pay every user who has wasted countless money on wasted media ? LITEON seeing that there are so many complaints and even review sites reporting average to poor burns with most media, don’t they bloody wake up and see that something is wrong and do something ??? Thank goodness, no thank the GOD who made omnipatcher… Why the HELL didn’t LITEON properly code the strategies, why is it that modders and coders produce stuff that FIXES a lot of the problems, when it was LITEON’s bloody job to do so ???

Question remains - Who should get a kick in the arse and get sued… LITEON or media ? Unfortunately stores DO NOT refund your money if you go back with your spindle of 100 Maxells that turned out to be sh**** RITEK02! Or not even the RUDE, ARROGANT, IGNORANT and condescending ***** at Maxell tech support… So now what ?

BEWARE of buying spindles (cake boxes) - It’s like a box of chocolate, you don’t know what you’re gonna get :eek:

I always buy the MAXELL spindles of 25 and 50 and they turn out to be RICOHJPN ! I have bought 3 of them, and went through all of them and not ONE COASTER !!! All of them with good reads. Now this morning I get 1 x 50 and 1 x 100, and both crap boxes turn out to be all RITEK02, which produce SEVERELY BAD BURNS, PIs in the thousands from start to finish along with PIFs from start to finish!

I use the omni patcher now and they recommend swapping RITEK-CRAP-02 with YUDEN0002… But discs still give higher readings than usual PI counts in the 3 digits (usually 100-150 across whole disc) and many PIFs counts although below 4. Is there any better swap for RITEK02 that I can use, that provides RICOHJPN like KPROBE readings ? Open to suggestion I am losing my patience here ! :slight_smile:


#2

As you can see from the HORRID kprobe above, these batches made by MAXELL (company which has lost ALL my respect now) are the WORST readings I see with my LITEON. Please don’t tell me that my drive is bad because I NEVER get such readings with other media… even the crappy CMCs and worse other medias I’ve used give 300PIs at most, never this horrible reading. WTF is up with RITEK02? Also after searching google, I see a website that lists RITEK02 under the “POOR MEDIA TO AVOID” list… Great, the LAST thing I expected was a company like MAXELL, which provides lifetime waranty on their media, to pull such a vile stunt. They also never honour their waranty and will make your life miserable - You also have to mail the poor media back to them, so what ? I have to go through all 100 of the crappy RITEK02s and mail them individually ? Costing me time, postage (which is pretty expensive) and end up costing me more than I paid for the sh*** ?


#3

I agree with your assesment of RITEKR02 as relatively poor media, but I am one of the lucky few who has had success with this media:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=639140&postcount=1

As such, I wouldn’t say your drive is bad per se, but there are certainly drives out there that can do better. If you are looking to place blame, I wouldn’t completely fault Lite-On since the 811 is getting a little long in the tooth nowadays. Maybe time to look for a deal on a 451 to crossflash to an 832?


#4

here’s what you can do when you buy your next batch of media. Only buy stuff that’s made in Japan and not Taiwan.


#5

Are you using the Omnipatcher tweak for RITEK R02 ? - oops, I missed it, you are, with some improvement - you could trawl the strategy swap thread, as searching does not work well - there are probably some other tries.
Also, moving up or down in firmware version can make a big difference - some mediua codes are favoured by some versions, and take a downturn in others.


#6

you can try older firmware like HS0E
i had worse results with HS0K and above

now i try HS06 [the original fw reset learnt data ] see the scan ricoh4X omnipatched speedhack burned8x there is hope for me :bigsmile:



#7

hope i don’t get flamed too much for this, but i blame liteon. i have a 411@811s, a nec 2100@2510, a 1633s and 2 benq 1620’s, and had 2 nec 3500’s for a short while. the liteones consistently have the worst burns. i know people get good liteon drives, but that has never been the case for me. every other drive i had/have will produce far superior burns than the liteon’s. i know there is a boatload of crap media out there, but if you stay with the better mid’s then the quality seems to be pretty consistent.


#8

I think its a mix of both
There are a lot of crap media out there just now and it seems to be getting worse…
But also liteon dvd writers are not on a par with some of the rest
I wanted to buy a liteon to replace my sony because of
1= 2 sheep (i know it dont matter with the latest safedisc)
2= support of the firmware patchers
3= kprobe scans, ommipatcher etc etc
4= because they had the best cd-rw drives on the market
but i felt i could not throw good money away on what i considered to be an inferior drive…
I had a liteon for a short while (borrowed) and it was no better than my sony (i wont even go there)
sure i could have had a bad one but there seems to be a lot of them going about…
With this being the liteon forum i will probably be slated as well but thats life
You only need to look at online polls to see how the liteon rates with other drives including the poll here about “which 16x writer is best”


#9

Since when is MCC crap media?


#10

I think I have to agree with the man who, a long while back, said any DVD writer with a Mediatek chipset is a crappy drive. So far I’ve had both a Lite-On and a BTC and both sucked. I’d take media over to other people and have them burn it and do a kprobe on my drive to compare it with the burns I produced and my burns were always the worst of the lot. Personally, I think the first post in this thread is accurate in every respect. Sure, there’s some crappy media floating around and lots of just plain mediocre stuff but no writer should perform so poorly on a wide variety of media that almost always burns better on other brands of drives.


#11

It is where the liteons are concerned. The only decent burns you can get with a liteon it seems are with RICOHJPN and YUDEN - Problem is that most of the crap floating around in stores now are CMC, RITEK & MCC, which are variable in quality and certainly not burnt well on the liteon.

As to the advice of a poster to buy the “made in japan” media, easier said than done. All the media in the stores, particularly the ones you buy in boxes of 5, 10, 25, or spindles, are labeled made in taiwan.

Now it seems media manufacturers are dropping RICOHJPN, in order to save a few cents on production (bloody cheapskates) and are switching to CMC, RITEK and no-name sh*te!

MEMOREX used RICOHJPN, now they use CMC. Mind you the CMC used by memorex burn surprinsingly well on my 811S, with a PIs in the top 15 at most and extremely low POs, never exceeding limits, HOWEVER, they crap out towards the end of the disc with a HUGE mountain for both PI/POs, rendering them useless for a full disc burn. The RITEKs take the cake, with crap readings the ENTIRE surface.

I took the liberty to call Maxell’s 1-800 tech line and there is always this rude MORON who answers the phone. I exposed my problem and asked them why the hell are they ruining their reputation to save maybe 1 or 2 cents and decide to use a supplier that is KNOWN to be poor, and the only thing that person had to say is: “We haven’t changed anything!” Bloody morons, I have an old maxell spindle here, 1 disc is dark purple RICOHJPN and another spindle (newer) is a very, pathetic looking very light pink and in some discs you could clearly see uneven dye spreads, so Maxell are clueless ***** who don’t give a damn about their customers and even worse, always blame the customer.

As to LITEON, they seem to ADMIT that their drives are picky about media and their response to me is “use quality media sir” - I was livid and almost told them where to go… They should start advertising on the box “We only support quality media of these brands…”

Yeah well I have no problem using quality media, but how the HELL am I supposed to know which is which now ??? I always relied on Maxell because I know they used RICOHJPN now they use RITEK… MEMOREX uses CMC, so who the bloody hell uses RICOH now ? Even verbatims use CMC (and MCC) now… So I guess LITEON will have to pull its finger out of its arse and start making drives that adapt to media that is commonly sold now as it seems those good medias we all loved are scarce.


#12

MCC is by and large quality media, which is what Verbatim has always used for the bulk of its DVD (seeing has how Verbatim is a subsidiary of Mitsubishi Chemcial Corp and all). I’ve gotten pretty good burns with MCC002 and MCC003 on my 812S, and it just LOVES MCC02RG20. It could be that the 811S firmwares don’t have good write strategies for the MCC media; have you tried the codeguys’ firmwares, or just crosspatched 812S/832S firmwares?


#13

I have repeated several times, I am using an original 811S, it is not modded or crosspatched, only at the time I posted this did I try omnipatcher, but MCC burns are CRAP - Seems the only media worth my while is RICOHJPN.


#14

then stick with RICOHJPN… why are you getting your panties all in a wad when ppl here are only trying to help you?


#15

Indeed. :iagree:
Typical scan of (Singapore manufactured) Verbatim Data Life Plus 8x -R burnt on my 832S (f/w VS0E) below:



#16

With the ridiculously low price of quality burners, e.g. Benq, NEC, Philips, etc, and prices falling every day, I don’t know what the problem here is. You say that you’ve burned tons of DVDs and have had a good time using your 811s. Recently things are going bad (are they really? or just the KProbe scans?). If it is indeed burning badly and it is still under warranty why not sent it for RMA? Do you sue every company just because their products stop functioning properly?

If you talk about media then you may have a point there. Media is very poorly identified by manufacturers and you, usually, only know what you’re buying when you try it yourself.

Another thing: are those RITEKR02 playing on the standalones or not? You only present KProbe scans and nothing more. What about “Nero CD-DVD spped” transfer scans? How do they look? Smooth upwards curve, maybe? And do they play properly on the standalones? All valuable information which is missing from your report.

I also ask this because I’ve had a 401s@811s and RITEKR02 that would produce horrific KProbe scans, sometimes even worse than the ones you posted. However they would work perfectly on my standalones and the “Nero CD-DVD speed” testing was good. More recently I got a LiteON 1213s and lo and behold, the Kprobe scans on those same “horrific” disks" are now well within spec. My personal conclusion: the 401s/411s/811s is not a bad writer. Some units, however, tend to become a poor scanner and produce strange looking KProbe scans.

So if your only problem is that you’re not happy with the look of your KProbe scans, don’t go to LiteON and complain. They don’t advertise their burners as devices which produce good looking KProbe scans. As as been debated many times before, KProbe scans are time and again useless when it comes to real burn quality. It’s easy to find scans which look very pretty but don’t play on standalones and visa-versa.


#17

They make my Taiwanese MCC02RG20s look so bad :sad:.


#18

Why even ask…

u take the same +R medias (crapy or not) to Benq’s burners, they’ll usually give u good results…

take the same -R medias to NEC / Pioneer burners, they’ll also give u good results …

The thing is the QC of Liteon is so bloody inconsistent, some lucky ones get good drives and most does not … Without the fw/tools from C0deguys, Liteon wouldn’t even worth shit …

blame them!? I say :“burn them” :stuck_out_tongue:


#19

Taiwan MCC02RG20 works pretty well on my 812S: http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=811399&postcount=55


#20

You can blame LiteON and their choice of mediatek as a chipset choice. Heres an explination i found. Mediatek is the problem it looks like.

None of the MediaTek-based drives seem to be doing well in the 16x DVD burner market. MediaTek was wonderful for CDs because 1) CDs are simpler and easier to write to and 2) Mtk was the champion of good EFM encoding, making it the darling of CD copy protection handling. The current drives still do wonderfully with CDs and with copy protections. And they even burn quite nicely at 8x. But I think that MediaTek’s chipset just isn’t up to it for 16x.