Which is better lower PIE or PIF? 280 PIE Max? 8 PIF Max?



Which is better lower PIE or PIF? 280 PIE Max? 8 PIF Max? I only keep disc that have lower than 280 PIF MAX and 8 MAX PIF, am i doing the right thing? What are the guidelines for a good burn, read the FAQ already! Thanks.


If you look through this thread by OC Freak it will help.The limits you posted above are guidelines so I wouldn’t be throwing away discs because they may have spiked over the guidelines. :slight_smile: http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=80545


did help I dont use kprobe. I use nero to check disc quality.


PIEs are correctable errors. You can have 100% of all blocks have correctable errors and the disc will still read fine, if the drive’s inner Reed-Solomon decoder circuitry can keep up. 280 is a somewhat arbitrary limit that simplifies chip design but if you don’t exceed 280 every drive that complies with the DVD spec will read it without slowing down.

Each PIF corresponds to an uncorrectable inner block. The second layer of error-correcting coding kicks in and has to deal with it. If that fails, the block is unreadable and the drive will re-read it at a lower speed. If it fails at a lower speed, that’s it, it gives up.

Obviously, a PIF is a much more serious event, only a step away from a POF which is when the outer decoder fails as well. You can see why CD Speed disc quality score is based on instantaneous PIF levels only.


You will find that some really bad burns with massive pie’s and pio spikes play just as good as better burns. The best idea is to verify all your burns and if they verify ok, that’s good enough. You shouldn’t get too hung up on quality scores as they are of little importance. I have had burns of 99% qs failing after less than 1 year due to poor organic dyes used in blank dvd manufacturing. On the other hand, one of my burns that had a qs of 74 over a year ago still scans at about the same qs. The quality of the media is much more important.


In my opinion, the PIF’s are the most important thing, and are the first thing I look at when I scan a disc. If the PIF’s are good then I don’t think you need to be particularly concerned about the PIE’s - even if they exceed the 280 reference level.

If the PIF’s occasionally spike to 16 I don’t worry too much about it. If however, there’s a cluster of PIF’s say 1/4 inch wide or so, and the whole cluster peaks past 10 or 12, then I get a bit concerned. I get a lot more concerned if the cluster peaks to 16 or higher. This situation tends to happen mostly near the end of a burn, particularly when you’re burning at high speeds of 12X - 16X.

Assuming importance rated on a scale of 1 - 10, with 1 being trivial and 10 extremely important then I would rate the CD Speed graph with the following weights:

PIE’s - 5
Jitter - 5
PIF’s - 9
POF’s - 10


Does disc labeling increases Jitter?


I have given up labelling dvd’s as it causes all sorts of problems, including increased jitter and reading problems especially in standalone players. I prefer to use printable blanks instead.


Disc labeling increases everything.


Should I keep the disc? How is the write quality?


My comment is “Acceptable”. But you can easily guess that this is not a top class media.

If I can buy them at less than half the price of TY T02. I would consider buying them and use for non-serious backups.


That’s a good burn. Just a spike or two reaching the 8 and 9 PIF and the rest all above 6.
But, as jk736 says, if you wanna burn important things, you should try to find other dics that offer you better results.


Other what ? LOL !


Errr… not quite accurate :slight_smile:

PIE is a byte level error on a ECC block row. Too high PIE per one row (of an ECC block) and it will result in a PIF.

PIF is an erroneous row, which exceeds the number of correctable bytes (PIE) / row on the inner parity level.

POE is an erroneous byte at column level (outer parity). A PIF will always trigger at least a single POE. Too high POE and it will trigger a POF for that column.

POF is a failure at outer partity checking/correction level of the decoder. It means that the column in question has an incorrectable error (or more than one) and in it’s current state is unreadable (that logical block in the CIRC decoder, not the part on the disc).