I went with the Nutech and I had problems with it, LONG story for those of you who are curious, but to cut a long story short the techies told me that i have a 50-50 chance that the dual layer f/w update will work, I tried it and it wont allow me to burn DVD-R, the drives have a lot of problems, samething with the mt.ranier support, they told me it doesnt work. So I looked at the 811s, great all around drive, dvdwriting quality could be better though, but still I can't complain, some problems though with cheaper media, use the known brands just in case. Liteon 812s seems to have quite a few bugs, and dvd writin quality isn't that good, NEC has its ups and downs, but a very good choice, proportional good/bad advantages. Then I saw the review on cdrinfo about the toshiba SD-R5272 and I bought it, and to tell you the truth I dont know what to complain about for this drive cept maybe the DAE speed could be higher, but still a damn good drive. Great reader/writer, with CD/DVDs. It supports the latests Safedisc versions for those of you who "backup" games. audio ripps is good but it doesn't support key2audio. thats not a problem cause all you gotta do is jump on kazaa lite and your done. One other cool thing about this drive is DVDRAM reading. Most drives dont support that. NEC has poor reading, few features, (even with herries f/w)but great writing, liteon has great features and good cd burning, good reading, but average dvd writing quality with the right media, and the tosh has verygood cd/ good dvd writing quality, excellent reading, lots of features, cd/dvd compatibility, and very good price comparable to the nec and liteon. This is the best choice ive seen so far, but this is my opinion, ill do some serious in depth testing and see whats up, and then ill confirm my statement of the tosh, but so far sooooo great.