Where's KProbe PO chart?

Hi all, I tried to use KProbe with my LiteOn 1693S. The problem is on the BLER tab, all I see is PI graph and PIF graph. The picture from the kprobe.cdfreaks.com shows a PI graph and an PO graph on the BLER tab. So why is it that I can’t see it? Thanks

Mine shows pif too. I’m not sure if there is a technical diffrence (it probably goes into that on the interpreting scan results thread), but they are basically the same thing. Pi are recoverable errors and pif or po are non recoverable errors or something like that. The kprobe thread is pretty old (though it has been updated). The screen shots are probably from kprobe ver1. I wouldn’t worry about it.

Thanks for the reply. But then when I use Nero CD-DVD Speed, they would have the PI, PIF, AND PO error listed. So then, what’s PO listed in Nero software means?

I’ll let someone more farmiliar with cdspeed answer that question. My first drive was a liteon (actually a pacific digital) so once I learned about scanning, I pretty much used kprobe. I have used cdspeed error testing on other drives to compare to my kprobe scans but only to a limited extent and for that purpose. People actually buy liteons for thier scanning ability so I stuck to it (ecc8/1 scanning was the main reason). Every graph that I have seen posted from kprobe or cdspeed had two graphs though, where are you seeing all three (in the log page)?

I didn’t see 3 graphs in cd-dvd speed. I see the PI and PIF graph, but there is an PO error counter around the bottom right-hand corner. The reason why I ask is that I read the PI/PO explaination thread and that PI above 280 is bad and PO above 32 is bad. I don’t see that in KProbe v2.51, but in the screenshot of kprobe’s thread has an PO graph; which makes me very confused and lost.

So you are just wanting to know how to interprete the graph. Thats easy. The limits for your drive will be pi 280, pif 4.

The reason for yours being diffrent is the ecc count. The ecc count is basically how often it scans. The more often it scan, the more errors it is going to report. The book standards for dvd call for no more than 280 pi for an ecc block of 8, and no more than 4 pif for an ecc block of 1. Most drives are not capable of scanning ecc 8/1. The most common is ecc8/8. thats why other drives are allowed 280/32. They are scanning the pif 8 times as often so of course they are allowed 8 times as many errors. My aopen drive is only capable of ecc 16 for pi and pif so its limits would be 560/64. that is one of the advantages of scanning with liteons. They are capable of scanning at ecc 8/1 which is the best settings to use (I could be wrong here, but I think liteons are the only drives that are capable of ecc8/1 scanning).

If that didn’t make sense, don’t worry, you don’t have to understand it all. On the right hand side of the kprobe screen, set the speed to 4x, the pi sum to 8 ecc blocks, and the pif sum to 1 ecc block (kprobe should have defaulted to those settings but if they are diffrent, change them to that). Then the limits for you will be pi of 280, pif of 4. Do be aware that when looking at others scans in cdspeed, they are probably scanning at ecc8/8, so the pi would be comparible to your scans, but a pif (or po) spike in thier that goes up to 32, would be the same as yours spiking up to 4 (divide their pif or po by 8 to compare with yours).

Thanks RipIt, I also have another question. Would it consider a bad burn if the PIF (suppose to be 4) is > 4? How much more would one say the disc is unreadable?

Kprobe as well as cdspeed scans are not a cut and dry test as to weather a disk will play or not. Instead, think of them as a guideline as to how well the disks are burning. If the pi are low (substantially below the 280 limit) and you get a few single spikes (just a single line going higher) the disk may play just fine in multiple players, in fact, single spikes like that can sometimes be caused by the drive reading/scanning it rather than actual errors on the disk. If however you ge an area that goes over 4 and or you have errors that slowly mountain up above 4 (even though the actual area that goes above 4 is small) you might have read problems.
Part of the reason that there is no exact point where a disk becomes unplayable is that it can depend on the reader (drive or standalone dvd player). some drives/dvd players are very strong readers and can read disks that have high errors/scratches etc. most of the time. Other players may not be that good of readers and therefor less tollerant of errors. Of course some players fall inbetween. Players can also be sensitive to media (and maybe not like reading a particular brand of media). If the player likes the media, it would probably be less sensitive to errors than with media that it has a harder time reading.

In general though, the lower the errors, the beter chance the disk will have to play in the most number of players and you do want to keep the errors below 4 if possible. The disk still might play (keyword there is might) if errors go above 4, especially if it is just a single spike.
Look at this scan.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=1152835&postcount=24
It is actually a scan of a disk that was burned about a year ago (and was recentlly scanned). there is a single spike where the pif goes up to 80!!! I would still consider this a good burn though (look how low the errors are overall). It is possible that a weak player might skip or momentarilly freeze when it hits that spot (maybe it’s a scratch on the disk), maybe that spike was caused by the drive scanning it and the errors are not actually their. One way to test against spikes like these to see if they are problamatic is to do a cdspeed transfer rate test (cdspeed work just fine with liteons). If reading slows down where the spike is, them some players may have a problem.
Good burns stay under 4 pif (except single spikes sometimes). bad burns that go over 4 are going to be less liklly to play.

Did that make sense?
Fyi the best way to learn is to post some of the scans that you have questions about. After kprobe scans, click the little floppydisk icon to save the scan (save as a png file) and attach it to a post here. Then others can look at the graphs and help you interprete them. Also look through others scans in the media forum or elsewhere and see what the coments are about them.

That helps a lot. Thanks RipIt.