What's your take on the new HD DVD movie discs and their new protections?

vbimport

#1

I did search for a thread on this subject but didn’t find anything… I may have missed it and if I did I apologize in advance.

Most people probably remember when DVD CSS originally got cracked with the Xing software player.

I was wondering about people’s take on the new HD DVD discs. Some people say they are locked down tighter than a maximum security prison, others say it is only a matter of time. I’ve read a lot of comments about newer “unbreakable” protections that say “man made it, man can break it,” and while I agree that’s true, man might need a LOT of money, knowledge, proprietary expensive high tech equipment, and brains to “break” it.

While I am sure software companies won’t make the same “Xing” mistake again, wouldn’t being able to play HD DVD discs on a PC using software make it possible to happen again?

Again I apologize if these questions sound stupid, I am only an amateur.


#2

The cracking of any protection is just a matter of time.
Granted, if the protection is extremely well made, the time requirement can escalate up to longer than the life of the sun, but that’s only the case with super-secure computer networks that use long, encrypted passwords and the like (and quantum computers will be able to break even those in seconds, when and if they get invented).

Consumer-grade protections are never that secure, though, with one of the reasons being that they need to be read on many platforms and different systems. Expect ripping programs to be available sometime in the near future.

As for how this will go over for me: I couldn’t care less.
And for the whole HD-DVD versus BluRay dispute, I care not for all the high-definition crap and DRM and encription and so on. The format I’ll prefer will be the one that becomes available sooner and cheaper for burning data, so I can stuff the discs full of DivX movies and solve the problem before it presents itself.


#3

I dont think I;ll even bother with blu ray or hd dvd, just because of all the money you’d spend on getting a fancy tv, a player, a blu ray/hd dvd drive etc. How many people out there feel like splurging on a 42 inch tv, and all the rest of it? I am happy with dvd quality lol.

As for the the protection, yeah, it is just a matter of time. With Safe disc 4 protected games, its feckin hard to make a physical backup, so in a sense I would say that the protection might be cracked but even if it does, it might be a big hassle to back one of those new discs up.


#4

Fallingwater, is that a picture of you? If so, damn you’re pretty damn attractive.


#5

Yet again :smiley: no, that’s Lisa Miskovsky in the avatar.
www.lisamiskovsky.com

As for the protection: sure, cracking a protection might be tough the first time, but it takes just one person to do it to make it useless.


#6

The big problem will be the way a copied disc will disable hardware, requiring a service call. This will stop quite a bit for a while. Remember, they still have no fix for DRM.


#7

wait, SO can we play HD DVD on our computers? Our LCD’s should be able to support the resolution, or do HD DVD require a special new DVDROM drive we’ll all have to get now?

I was going to get one from netflix just to see, but if my DVD+RDL Pioneer drive won’t read it no use in wasting a shipment…


#8

You’ll need special HD DVD drives.
The technology used is an evolution of current DVD tech, but it won’t be playable in current DVD drives (though hopefully future HD DVD drives will be backwards-compatible).
Chas: if all else fails, one can always analogically copy the movie and compress it to DivX. This isn’t optimal, but it should tide the p2p world over until someone cracks the encryption.


#9

Agreed. But I can make copies of my DVDs to VHS as well. I am betting that they will have a huge difficulty copying, if at all. I am also betting it will be a long time before they replace old style DVD as most people will not see any additional benefit. Look how long it took DVD to catch on and then only after HDTV started to show the potential. As of now, the difference between the new DVD format and the old is minimal except on very large HDTVs and then only if you get close. Of course, we all watch large TVs from a distance. They will have to offer something more to sign up enough people to convince studios to stop pressing regular DVDs.


#10

I was reading about the copy protection that they gone use on Blu-Ray and HD DVD, after reading I shook my head in disbelief. Anyone interested reading about copy protection read the article. I have provided the link

http://www.dvdfile.com/news/viewpoin...005/05_18.html

[B]If link doesn’t work I will attach the whole article [/B]


#11

You won’t believe it…how evil they have become!

As for region coding this is how it gone work

[B]Region 1: North America, South America, East Asia except for China (India, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Malaysia etc.)
Region 2: Europe and Africa
Region 3: China, Russia and other countries[/B]

Taken form>http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=15908


#12

[B]Never mind for ease i have posted the entire article[/B]

What the studios really seem to have in store for us
This is not a joke; I wish it were

by Dan Ramer
WEDNESDAY, May 18, 2005

On April 1st, I published a tongue-in-cheek satirical Viewpoint describing what content protection techniques we might expect the studios to impose when high-definition DVDs are introduced later this year. I had no idea when I wrote the piece how close my imaginings would come to the truth. And I had no idea that what’s coming is even more utterly absurd.

There has been much written recently about Sony and Toshiba participating in ongoing unification talks. Some sites reported that the Blu-ray Disc structure and HD-DVD’s encryption and data structures were the basis of an agreement, only to have the negotiation participants deny the story. On May 10th, Toshiba announced a 45 GB, three-layer version of HD-DVD that was quickly embraced by Paramount and Warner. This would seem to negate Blu-ray Disc’s 50 GB capacity advantage. From the Blu-ray Disc camp seven days earlier, Panasonic announced that it will ã³´art operating a pilot production line for Blu-ray Disc replication and a technology center for creating Blu-ray Disc titles . . . at its Torrance disc manufacturing facility.ä ¼/p>

This is a lot of posturing for two camps that are supposed to be negotiating a truce, but all of this is moot until we learn whether or not the talks yield a unified format. This may not occur any time soon; there are reports that the talks have reached an impasse. Each side seems to be unable to compromise on the key feature of disc structure. What isn’t moot is the previous acceptance by both camps of Advanced Access Content System or AACS for the protection of the film industry’s intellectual property. An analysis paper published by a group called Independent Security Evaluators (ISE) caught my attention. It’s a detailed look at AACS and Cryptography Research Inc.'s (CRI) system called Self Protecting Digital Content or SPDC. ISE’s analysis recommends that CRI’s SPDC sitting on top of AACS is the best protection for HD discs. Now, what does that alphabet soup mean to us?

I read through the paper and shook my head in disbelief. There is a great deal of technobabble - each technology seems to develop its own vocabulary - but I’ll try to offer the highlights, as I understand them, in the simplest possible terms. Let me begin with AACS.

The most important feature of AACS is that information stored on high definition discs permits specific players or kinds of players to play the HD discs. This offers the studios the opportunity to revoke specific kinds of players’ permission to play titles released from point of discovery of a security compromise and onward. In other words, you buy a thousand dollar player, bring it home, fall in love with the wonderful images, and smile uncontrollably every time you fire up your home theater system. Then some very clever hacker figures out a way to disable or defeat the copy protection for your make and model of player - perhaps by replacing the player’s ROM chip that holds the firmware and offers conversion kits over the Internet. The studios get wind of it and they put that player on the revoked list. For every title released from that point forward, your player will not work. Congratulations, you now own a thousand dollar boat anchor.

AACS is capable of other nasty tricks. It can revoke a tile if the keys for that disc become known. It can revoke an individual player. Content will be watermarked, and illegal copies will be traceable to a player. There is network connectivity built into the AACS standard, implying CRM or content rights management operations. Yes, an Internet connection may be required after all.

So not only do we have the threat hanging over our heads of having to throw away billions of dollars of analog input only HD-ready displays if the studios don’t permit the inclusion of full resolution component video outputs on the new players, now we’re facing the threat of having to throw away an expensive player if that model is compromised by diligent hackers. I wonder how many players will eventually become inert bookends? I wonder how many millions more dollars the studios expect us to sacrifice on their alters of protective excesses.

Like it so far? You ain’t seen nuthin’ yet. SPDC provides the means to revoke a player’s ability to play all titles, even those that were released before the player was compromised. SPDC has the ability to create traceable content, should either a single player or a group of players be compromised. So if pirates manage to break the encryption on his copy of your beloved high definition disc of Revenge of the Sith , you could suddenly find yourself with a disc that no longer plays. The players accept updated revocation information from each new disc played and store that information in memory that isn’t affected by powering the player down (non-volatile memory). This system also has the ability to reduce output quality (image constraint) and can literally modify your player’s firmware. Very scary.

To its credit, SPDC provides for the 㯢fuscationä ¯f the firmware that, if compromised, will trigger some or all of these draconian measures. So one could argue that the layering of SPDC on top of AACS makes it less likely that any of these unspeakable countermeasures will ever be executed. But you know as well as I do that as soon as the new high definition formats hit the market, there will be the unscrupulous and the mischievous launching their attacks. How long will it take before hackers provoke the victimization of the innocent? And how fair or reasonable is the studios’ intent to punish law-abiding home theater enthusiasts because of the acts of a few sociopaths?

DVD has become a financial bonanza for the film industry. And the studios have the opportunity to sell all their titles all over again in high definition form. But if the studios insist on abusing their best customers, the backlash will cripple the format and the studios will have thrown away billions of dollars in income. Are you listening MPAA? Are you listening motion picture studios? You must make the honest consumer happy. That is your first priority if you expect HD-DVD or Blu-ray Disc or some hybrid to become your next cash cow. Sue the criminals. Close down illegal file sharing. Work with the State Department and Congress to apply economic sanctions on foreign countries that do not support and protect international copyrights. But leave the innocent alone.

Three things may help mitigate this nonsense and potentially avoid the high definition disc market from imploding, taking the HDTV transition with it. First, if we’re truly going to be stuck with these outrageous content protection schemes, the studios must put into place a no-cost-to-the-consumer disc replacement program to exchange revoked titles for the same film with new encryption keys. Second, the player manufacturers must put in place a no-cost-to-the-consumer ROM replacement program whenever one of its models is revoked. And third, full resolution, full bandwidth analog component video outputs must be included on the new players along with the HDCP-compliant HDMI or DVI digital outputs.

Sigh. I have a bad feeling about this


#13

Just to add my two cents. I don’t believe that the great unwashed (TGUW), you know, us folks who have to work for a living and worry about things like the price of food and gas, will be willing to spring for the bleeding edge technology required to display HD or Blu-Ray movies any time in the near future.

For the great unwashed TGUW, DVD is simply great. Stand Alone DVD Players in some cases cost less than $50.00 and are displayed on a non HD TV with a quality never seen in the past.

Let’s see; you can buy a decent 32" TV (non HD) for under $500.00 however; for an HD 32" TV you will pay way north of $1000.00.

Is big business really silly enough to believe that TGUW are going to spend $500.00 or more for a stand alone HD or Blu-Ray DVD Player, then between $35.00 and $50.00 for a single movie pressed in the HD or Blu-Ray format?

Get real. DVD did not really take off until the cost of movies and players got down to the price range that TGUW could afford.

Who cares about the war of the HD formats. Until the prices come way, way, down; not enough people will purchase those products to really determine which format wins.

I predict that it will be more than a few years before TGUW even start buying either format. So we are left with this impression about the HD format wars. Who Cares!


#14

So:

  1. download/buy legitimate content that may require you to replace at random your player, tv or set of eyeballs
  2. download torrents of same content and watch free from restrictions

Tough choice.

I don’t think there would be a better way of enticing people to pirate movies. I mean, even if they just flat out said “Come and get yer movies, all free!” they’d probably have less success.
This is ludicrous.