What's in a name, or a MID for that matter?

Recently on anohter internet forum, I’ve been having a discussion with a guy about optical media and such… The subject of “Delkin Archival Gold” DVD-R media, came up. Apparently he got some samples from Delkin. I had found some refference to the Delkin Gold media on here and pointed him to it.

To make a long story shorter… This guy says that the MID code on the discs Delkin gave him was “MCC 03RG20” and when I do research on that MID code, it seems this is a code that’s often used with discs sold under the Verbatim brand, etc…

Now, perhaps I just misunderstand the concept of “MID” but I thought that the MID was suposed to give you a really good (more or less definitive) indication of where the disc was made, etc…

Doing some more research, it would seem that the MID does not nessasarly tell you where a disc was made, and may only tell you what the type of ‘dye’ is that was used in the disc…

Bottom line question… Is a Delkin “Archival Gold” dics with the MID “MCC 03RG20” really any differnt then a Verbatim disc with taht same MID? (or any other branded disc with that same MID)…

Now Delkin claims there discs use '24K gold' reflective material, etc... Now I'm all but 100% certian that Verbatim doesn't sell MID "MCC 03RG20" dics with 'gold' reflective material...   

So, what’ up? What exactly does the MID tell you? and why would Delkin be giving samples of a disc with a MID code of “MCC 03RG20” and saying it has “gold” reflective material if other discs with this same code don’t have gold reflective material, etc… ???

By the way… here is a link to the other forum and the discussion taking place there…

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1023&message=18867801

The MID (assuming it’s legit) tells you what is the MODEL of the disc is.

This includes the whole technology (polycarbonate, bonding agent, reflective layer, dye, manufacturing process, whatever…) and not only the “dye”.

The idea of the MID indicating just the “dye” is pure Internet myth based on poor information and continuous repetition. People just keep telling what they’ve read. It’s a little like urband legends.

The MID does NOT tell you [I]where[/I] the disc come from. The technology and materials behing a MID may be used by different manufacturers (like in the case of MCC discs, that can be manufactured by CMC, MBI and Prodisc).

If the MID is not legit (fake TY/MCC for example), well it doesn’t tell you anything at all.

BTW the MID is primarily not there to help us identify media, but to tell the burner to apply a particular burning strategy. How can people be so naive to think that the burning parameters should be adapted only for the dye…? The reflective layer and its characteristics comes second, but even the optical characteristics of the polycarbonate influence the burning and reading process!

I really don’t think those Delkins could be using the MCC dye. The MCC dye is azo but gold CDs and DVDs usually use the phtalocyanine dye.

OK… that’s more or less what I thought the MID told you… I think the only thing I was conused about is that I thought that the MID also told you something about where it was made, and was not aware that CMC could ligitamtely make dics with the MCC code, etc… I’m at least glad to hear that the entire ‘technology’ is documented by the MID code…

So, back to the story… I could be wrong, but I highly doubt that Delkin is using or giving away as samples a disc with a ‘fake’ MID. More likely is that this code is real…

 Moving in a differnt direction... Is there any reason to belive that the discs with the "MCC 03RG20" MID are actualy made with a 24K gold reflective layer? or is possible that Delkin misleading the public about the construction of the dics they are selling as 'archival gold' DVD-R???

The MID can maybe be used in a legal fashion without actually referring to the disc model (as I mention above, the MID’s first reason to exist is to have a burning strategy). Who knows? [B]Dakhaas[/B], maybe. You can PM him and ask him to take a look here.

Then again, how can we know if the guy stating that these Delkin discs have an MCC MID doesn’t make things up? People like to tell all sorts of things on the net. :stuck_out_tongue:

Last but not least, this story reminds me of another one, which is the story of MAM Gold media. If I remember well, MAM did fake mediacodes at some point. Not 100% sure though. Would Delkin be associated with MAM?

Well if you were to look at the full thread in that other fourm, you’d see that one of the things I pointed to in that thread, was this cdfreaks.com thread…

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=179523&highlight=Delkin+Gold

This user on the other fourm then stated that the discs he got from Delkin did not have that MAM code, etc…

I can not vouch for this other user’s integrity. I have some doubts myself, however I’m not ready to call him a ‘liar’ anytime soon, and I try hard to give most internet users the bennifit of the doubt untill they prove me wrong to do so…

In general… I find it fascinating that a company like Delkin can sell disc at nearly 10 times the cost of other discs, and make all these claims about how much better their discs are etc… However when I do searchs at CDfreaks.com I can find very little discussion about these ‘gold’ and/or ‘archival’ discs. Most of what I can find seems to say they are not worth any more then any other disc at best… If this really is more or less just a scam to sell discs at a outragously high price… You’d think that it would have more discussion, etc…

Based on other reading I’ve done here at club.cdfreaks.com, it would seem illogical to use a 16X MCC media code on some other media with a gold reflective layer. That is, from what I’ve read, media with a gold reflective layer most likely should be burned at a slower speed then your typical media… So, it just doesn’t seem to make any sense to use this “MCC 03RG20” code, to get a burner to use that write stratagy on ‘gold’ discs.

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=1429166&postcount=16

But then on anohter club.cdfreaks.com thread, someone inidcated that Mitusi was playing with and/or using media codes from media…

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=93862&highlight=Gold+DVD-R+media

So, I guess I don’t know what to think… alot of mixed information it seems to me.

Don’t know.

I can’t read the serial on the pictures on dpreview I would be interested in higher quality pictures of the stamper code and serial. The current resolution is to bad.

We are working on it getting to find out who made them.

EMTEC (packaged in a regular DVD box) with the 24K Technology.
I’ve seen these on sale just recently,most other 4x discs are off the market.

and the disc:

I don’t know any phthalocyanine DVD-R discs…
The hub codes do not match with any known bigger manufacturer’s hub codes.

Yeah but EMTEC disc’s are made by MPO/HISPACE.
Now it could be that they have a new version which uses a fake code but then there still is the made in USA on the package.

The guy with the disc has now posted a really large image of the DVD-R disc in question… as well as one of a CD-R they sent him…

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1023&message=18897603

The ZD stamper code reminds me of Verbatim discs. Does the disc have the MCC 01RG20 code?

The Delkin DVD-R ‘gold’ disc in question has the MID code of … “MCC 03RG20”

The hub codes do not look like MBI, CMC or Prodisc.
Wonder why it says 4x and not 16x then!

The stamper looks like MKM.

However it’s not the first time I see a questionable disc with a stamper code close to MKM.

So let’s waite for the official response. Can take some time.

Made In USA that really questions me.
And I don’t expect a official MKM disc comming from MAM-A after MAM-E abussed MCC004 code.

4x might be downrated because of compatability (read reflectivety issues)
MAM-A/Memorex archival gold has a TTH01 (8x+ mid code) while the recommended/rated speed is 4x.

This link states that the Delkin gold DVD-Rs use phthalocyanine:

http://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/product_info.asp?prdID=15641&usrID=1

Ultra-reliable 300 year life recordable 4.75GB capacity DVD. Uses patented ‘phthalocyanine’ dye formula and 24k gold in the layers to resist oxidation, the main cause of failure over time.

Is it wrong? I remember reading that either the Delkin or the MAM gold DVDs used phthalocyanine but maybe my memory falters.

Anyhow, if the Delkins do use phthalocyanine it would be very strange for them to use MCC codes since MCC codes are, presumably, optimized for azo by the DVD recorders. Even if they do use azo, one would think the recording strategy would still have to be optimized for the reflective properties of gold.

Based on the results so far I will call this product very questionable.
I suggest to not pick it up untill more data is known.

Supposedly Mitsui’s DVD dye is METALLIC DIPYRROMETHEME. One would think MAM would be using this dye, if that’s true. It’s likely a mix of phthalocyanine and something else.

Delkin doesn’t strike me as a major name brand or even a respectable minor name brand. It’s one of those bottom feeders that uses whatever it can to scrape up a few dollars profit.

Phthalocyanine is a light dye, probably what gets used on Princo and Infosmart media. MAM discs are dark and crappy, sort of like Ritek discs.

Ever since the poo-quality Verbatim CMC-ID 2x days, I think Verbatim/Mitsubishi is committed to high quality MCC/MKM media using only their own AZO dyes and careful manufacture. I’d be highly surprised if somebody else was allowed to use an MCC/MKM code on a DVD, especially for something of dodgy quality. I just don’t see that happening.