What media is the best for 'BACKUPS'

Dang, thanks for the many and great tips :slight_smile:

Temperature here does indeed fluctuate… but not by THAT much… the ‘jewelcase’ dvds are being stored in a wooden shelf… the other ones were in a cupboard… mhmm… about the cd-rs, i really wish it’d be an option… since most of my cd-rs (even the noname brands…) from ~1994, work as of today… but for covering large videofiles/high res photos… cd-rs just doesn’t cut it, i just don’t have space to store that many cds + i’d have to cut the bigger files up :confused:

That lucent/bell stuff seemed pretty wicked… I don’t have that much cash atm, or I’d definitely go for something like that.

And yes, I test all my dvds/cds thoroughly… probably too much, usually takes me about 2 hours to get satifised with a burned disc… too bad they don’t stay like that forever ;/

This is so weird… reading back the first disc I ever had problems with… it was burned on a px 708a… on a verbatim mcc002 disc… i first noticed the problems when trying to copy data off of it… where it would return those crc-errors… and spam my eventlog with ‘bad block’ errors… though, scanning the drive with cdspeeds scandisc thingie for bad blocks doesn’t return any errors… in fact, the files that are unreadable… show up as fine there… and the pi/pif scan isn’t shocking either, no uncorrectable errors… pretty high amount of pifs/pi… but i’ve seen worse… and the reading curve is smooth too… so i don’t get it, what’s causing the cyclic redundancy check errors? When opening the files on the dvd, they work fine… just can’t copy it from the dvd… only way to copy data off of it is to use a dvd-rom for it, then it works (or used to work, at least)… but never in any of the burners. I mean… if burning is this flaky, you can never know if you’ve had a successful burn, even if the trt/pi/pif/scans/etc show up fine… you might not be able to copy the data off of it.

DVD-Roms/Burners for scanning were a benq 1620/benq 1640/nec 3520a/nec 3500/plextor px712a/plextor px-116a and a lg-rom that i can’t be arsed to check out the model of :slight_smile:

The ROMs all copy the files fine… but the burners just won’t do it ;/

Here’s a scan of it… (pretty horrendous stuff…):


Was your MCC 002 made in India, made in Taiwan or made in Singapore?
I still have 4 MCC 002 MIT and 6 MCC 002 MIS left.

How are the various drives (optical/HD) connected in your system and does the problem occur in other PCs?

Singapore, came in a Cakebox with 50 in it.

I always run the burners as secondary master and the hdds as primary master… Tested it in 4 computers now… thing is, is there ANY way to test for CRC errors without having to copy the whole dvd… and can CRC errors occur after the burn is complete or are they initial?

That’s supposed to be the good stuff…:eek:

You can perform a Read Transfer Test in Nero CD-DVD Speed and you will be alerted to any reading problems. Running a ScanDisc Read test is another option, but you won’t see any slowdowns in the ScanDisc Read test.

CRC errors are detected during the reading process, and they can be introduced at any point including the burning process or as subsequent damage to the disc or can even be the fault of a bad reading drive.

Dang, that’s so weird… cause the disc mentioned above… returns crc-errors but only when copying, if i do the quality scan/trt… nothing comes up… but when i try to copy a certain file from the dvd… it says “CRC-error” bla bla… i figured putting md5 checksum files on the dvd would help to find em, but doesn’t seem like it will…

Hmm. one further question, are your DVD-ROM drives (which can successfully copy the data?) connected to the same IDE as your burners? and what Transfer mode do your various devices use? DMA1-5/PIO/other?

Mhmm… running the dvd-roms in the scannerboxes as slaves… first burner is running as dma 2, rom as 4… 2nd pair has the burner running as 2 and the slave as 2… burners used for burning and not reading are running as udma-2… but all alone in one ide-channel.

[B]gangrenous:[/B]

You could try these suggestions and see if you notice any difference.

[ul]
[li]Change drives to other IDE position or slave/master settings
[/li][li]Uninstall drives from windows device manager & allow them to be redetected
[/li][li]Change Transfer mode on affected drives
[/li][/ul]

The fact that your DVD-ROM drives can copy the data to HD with no issues suggests it is not a media issue, rather more probably a hardware/software conflict of some kind.

From the initial post, that’s been my sense all along that it’s some kind of hardware-related issue, especially considering good media was used as well as good storage conditions.

Yeah, true… what’s so weird about it is that it covers 4 different computers with different hardware setups (changed cables numerous times…), etc… also, the errors aren’t noticable until i’ve tried copying the data… is there any way to scan for crc-errors without having to copy the data to the hdd? :stuck_out_tongue: If so, that’d be great, since most of these errors were probably there during the initial burn… also, when doing pie/pif scans on the dvds, the only change i can see is that the pie amount has increased a bit… pif seems to say the same.

Is it possible that your problem is caused by reading speed ?

Since scanning speed is locked at 8X (or 4X incase of Lite-On), your drive may report less error but when you copy the file, the drive goes in full speed and this may cause the problem since higher speed = higher possibility of error…

I think limitting the speed when copying contents of the disc may help.

Thanks for all the quick and good answers, appreciate it… now over to some more questions (sigh!)

I thought and was hoping the same… set the speed to 8x for the benq/nec burners, still didn’t manage to read the file… but when using the roms, they copy it at full speed (12x (i think?))…

Just frustrating when there’s no good way to do big sized backups anymore…

You buy some verbatims from the local store, they cost quite a bit… only to find out that you bought a bad batch and that all your ‘very nice looking’ burns will be gone in a month or two… been reading through most of the posts here…
and it’s sad that there’s no rock solid media that you can buy for backups… with cd-rs… even the noname crap held for several years… same kinda goes for burners, used to buy plextors for cd-rs… with dvd-burners everyone seems to have something bad to say about all of them.

And about making double backups on the dvds, etc isn’t really an option considering I don’t order from overseas and the verbatim dvds cost ALOT in the online (from the same country) stores that I use… 130$ for 100 printable 16x +r dvds… 80$ for 100 16 +r’s on a spindle…

Just so disappointing that you can never know what you’re getting when buying stuff these days… I’d gladly pay alot more for media that will last at least 10 years… or a burner that’d give nice and dandy burns all of the time :stuck_out_tongue:

Was looking at a post that someone had posted… of a verbatim 16x dvd… that was supposed to be a bad burn… pi/pif tests showed up fine… so did the scandisc feature… but when he did the TRT test it showed crc-errors… how can you ever be sure? Do you have to test all discs 300 times each? And even if they do show up fine then, you can never know if they’ll go bunk in 1-2 months or not :stuck_out_tongue:

Frustrating and confusing…

Here’s a DVD from my last backup batch in 2005: it’s been stored in a jewelcase in a wooden shelf… was initially burned on a 3520 (TRT shows slowdowns in 16x on the benq, when scanned on the NEC it shows no slowdowns at all)… discscan checks out fine, etc… yet, when copying from it, I get CRC errors in all the burners… but not in the dvd-roms… even tried it on an acquaintance of mine’s computer… in his burner, no worky… but on a dvd-rom, worked fine…

Edit: This DVD looks almost the same as when it was burned… might’ve been a slight change of pies… but the pifs looked almost the same… similiar amount too… hell, might’ve even decreased a bit(?) :stuck_out_tongue:

Makes much sense(?)


No. What are you using to copy the disc contents, just Windows Explorer I’m guessing? (Sorry haven’t read through the thread) Try ripping a disc using DVD Decrypter in file or .ISO image mode and see if it comes across errors or significant slowdowns. DVD Decrypter download link

Some thoughts…

is there any way to scan for crc-errors without having to copy the data to the hdd
[B]DrageMester[/B] already gave you the answer: a transfer rate test. :slight_smile:

If you get a perfect reading curve in a given drive BUT you get CRC errors when transferring the data to HD with the same drive, it can only mean one thing in theory: the source data itself was corrupted when burnt to the disc.

So I’d like to ask if you’re 100% sure that you experienced a good reading curve in a TRT with a disc showing CRCs when copying the data to the disc (with [I]same[/I] drive used for both operations). Are you positive? Because in my experience this never happened (more than 900 DVDR discs up to this day…), and is in theory simply impossible. :confused: (assuming the source data was not corrupted).

Now about your MCC003 above: when I see such high jitter (16% @ 1GB in a @8X scan! :eek: that’s HUGE!), I’m not suprised in the least that some drives will read the data flawlessly and others will not.
As burners tend to be pickier with high jitter levels than pure readers are… [you can complete this sentence on your own]. :wink:

As for the general complaint about DVDR being less reliable than CDR… well this is partly true, but in real-world with good discs, good burners and good burning methods (no overspeeding, good drive/fw/disc combination), it’s not an issue.

I now have tons of backups on MCC003, MAXELL002, MXLRG02, MCC02RG20, YUDEN000T02, TTG02, CMCMAGE01, TYG02… and have absolutely no problems similar to yours. Some of these discs are 3 years old. Discs were burnt in Pioneer 108 & 109, Benq 1620-1640-1650, NEC 3540 and 4550.

Only MIDs I’ve had problems with (in terms of stability) were Ritek G04+G05, TDK003, and Ricoh-branded MBIPG101R04 (the Imation-branded ones are stable). Stuff I’ve never tried: Optodisc, Prodisc, Daxon, Sony. (and the dreaded Princo :bigsmile: )

BUT my experience is that some discs won’t necessarily be read properly in ALL drives, whatever the scans in drive X or Y look like. You sometimes need at least two readers for compatibility. This must be taken into account when managing backups on DVDRs… :frowning: