I know a single POF is equal to coaster, but how about POE? Can’t find any information on that, so can someone please tell me where to look for them. How does POE affect the quality of the burn and what is the max limit before it was considered coaster?
The recommended max according to DVD specifications for POE is 4. However I’ve had a few burns higher like 7 with no reading problems, it probably depends on a lot on the standalone DVD player’s error recovery.
You are confusing POE with PIF - the standards say that PIF should be 4 or lower, but AFAIK do not mention any maximum level for POE at all.
At some point in the past, the KProbe application incorrectly reported PIF as “PO”, so that may be why you’re confusing the two?!
I got very low total POE, but there is two gitch that shot over 240. Which max is 240 and total is 600. Is it a good burn? Can’t find any information of POE and except knowing that it is Parity Outer Errors. Hope someone in this forum could help! Thank!
I wonder also what POE is in plextools and how high it should get
hope some one here knows the answer to this.
Run the PI/PIF test in plextools, and post the results here.
A quality-scanning reader drive cannot know whether a writer can avoid making coaster or not. On many occasions, drives burn CDs and DVDs that aren’t readable in many drives.
Maybe I’m wrong but POE represent the one-step-incorrectable PIE, and graphically are like spikes because their value is 8 times higher than an correspondant PIE. Problems could appear if there are no isolated spikes but blocks of POE thus could lead to skips and freezes on dvdplayer. Usually the spikes does not surpass the 300 limit and I saw no spikes higher than 800. Often I see scratches on the disc surface in the portions with high POE, but this is not necessary. And again there is no correlation between PIE and POE in plexscans.
if you want to see any possible POE spikes in Plextools, you have to go under ‘PI/PO tests’ and then do “Burst test.” This is the same as the sum8, but it shows any POE. In my experience, you may get a POE spike where you have a higher PIE spike–the POE will show up on top of the PIE spike. However, if you also do a sum1 test, you’ll find some POE spikes show up and match the exact spots a higher PIF spike occurs. As with any scan, the fewer errors, the better, but right now, I’m unclear as to what is the upper limit on POE. For a playable, non-skipping DVD, the PIE limit is 280; the PIF spike limit is 4. However, on top-end DVD players, disks with errors over these limits can still play, although I would be a little uneasy about their storage life.
First, see my post previous to this one in this thread. Judging burn quality by POE alone is difficult. The best combinations are to run a burst test (shows PIE/POE), a sum1 (PIF) and a beta/jitter test. I can’t say how common it is to have POE, but in my experience, it’s normal to have some. I’ve had more than 600 total POE and my DVDs play with no problems, but then my burst and sum1 tests were pretty good also.
Here’s a link that might help you understand scanning and error limits better:
Thank for yours info. I was just wondering will high POE spike affects DVD storage life. Although the total POE is low (less than 2000), but the spike is pretty high which sometime could exceed 400~500 which make me worry about it affecting the storage life. My PIE are usually good, max would not exceed 25. and PIF is very good with max of 2. jitter test also result a “good” result. Anyway, thank for the info.
I’ve seen many say that the sum1 (PIF) test is one of the better indicators of the burn. The PIE numbers you mention put your quality burns at ‘very good’ (20-99) and the PIF max of 2 sounds good, although the fewer of those you have, the better. In other words, what is your normal total PIF? Excellent PIF would be around 100-150 total in my experience, although I have Ritek g05s that have 800-2250 total PIF that play well–although they have solid PIF spikes (others call it 'clumps) mostly at 1, with occasional ones to 2. A better to excellent PIF reading will be lots of open space without a PIF spike, and limited ‘clumping.’
I usually get a PIF scan of total from 150~300. Using Fujifilm Disc. I alway on PoweRec, so i never reach a true 16x speed. I don’t mind about that anyway, quality burn is more important to me.
150-300 would match the PIE values. If you’re getting that high, I’d lower your burn speed. A good idea (that Dr.Pino suggested to me) is to use the 716s ‘media quality check’ for your media. put in a blank and select the speed; it will then check if your disk can safely write at that test speed with good quality. The Fuji 8x DVD+R (y000-t02-00) burns about the same at 8x and 12x, but it doesn’t take a 16x burn as the 716 says it will. Set the 12x write speed in the burn program you use. Besides, a 12x burn will take 6:38 with great burn quality (low PIE/PIF), whereas if you let the 716 burn it at 16x, it’ll burn it at about 6:07-6:13, which is not a big difference. You’ll also get a lot higher PIE error rate.
noloser was referring to the total number of PIFs in a scan and not the peak PIEs…150-300 is about right for YUDEN000 T02 @ 8-12x in my experience…
the rest of your advice is spot on though Quema34
arg. I just love misreading stuff! Time to stand in the corner again. Sorry, no loser–I wasn’t careful enough.
when I read it again, 150-300 PIF is very good.
while you’re around, drpino, have you noticed any difference (increase) in PIF when you check the ‘change the DVD+R booktype’? I’m fairly sure I only did one burn that way, so I didn’t see if it did the same on at least 2 more successive burns, but with a y000t0200, I got about 518 pif, which was more than I was used to seeing (I normally see 96-120 PIF for 8x or 12x burns). Have you noticed anything like that…? That is, if you normally have that DVD+R booktype checked by default.
i normally bitset all my +R burns to -ROM and haven’t done any comparisons with non-bitset burns…yet
I should do my next two burns with +R and check the bitsetting so I can see if that one disk just happened that way. I have had a few y000t02-00s give me a 418 or 518, but that’s maybe 3 total out of 35 of them I’ve burned.
i stopped scanning all my burns…takes too much time…
yeah, the time is a factor. Even on ‘good accuracy,’ it takes a while. At some point I might stop scanning mine, although I always like to have an idea of how they burned.