What Drive and other questions

vbimport

#1

Hello, I’m new here, I’ve been waiting to buy a Bluray burner since I first heard, nearly 10 years ago, but I couldn’t afford until now. I have been reading here and there a bit but still there are a few concerns.

Main one is long storage, as long as it takes. I read that blurays are more durable than DVD’s because they have a hard coat protection. Now most if not all of my discs die because of dye fading, not scratches or anything, I also read in some places BDR’s failing after 1 month or one year, this has never happened to me before, is it true? are the BDR dyes organic? I’m thinking on buying Verbatim Discs, are them good/decent?

About the Burner model, I’m looking for a reliable one as I said, I recently read here about the BDR-PR1M which is aimed at long storage and can also do quality scans. I also read good things about BDR-207EBK. Does this one also do quality scans? Would them be compatible with Optidrive or Kprobe? which drive would you recommend me?

Also my main PC is right now a Laptop, I’m thinking on plugging the internal drive through a SATA-USB/eSATA adapter, would I have power or quality problems with this? (I’m already using it with an iHAS and discs quality are superb but I don’t know about BDR)

Thanks!


#2

Welcome to the forum :flower:

You may want to have a look at this thread for recent longevity testing on BD-R. My own experience with Panasonics so far is indicating good longevity as well.

I would not try to discourage you from investing in a PR1M, I intend to get one at some point myself. But, please look closely at the power requirements for that drive, perhaps e-mail pioneer about whether an external enclosure is likely to be able to support it’s power needs.

You should be able to burn BD-R safely at 4x via most USB connections. E-sata would be preferred, as 1x in the BD-R world = 4.5 MB/sec.
Some USB controllers/connections will struggle to deliver the data rate required for burning/reading at 6x.

The 207 does not do quality scans.


#3

Thanks for the input!

It’s just an adapter no an enclosure, this one specifically

I own an esata cable so power requirements aside, overall would you recommend me this model? (PR1M) I read that Pioneer scans only work with their software so… retail version needed then?

I also read about the Pioneer firmwares having region code changes a limited of times (5), the problem is at the office I have a XP x64 which is English OS, I have some data collected there I want to backup, then Laptop is Spanish… this is quite annoying, maybe I can change “region” on my XP x64 OS…?

About media, my intention is to buy a spindle for bulk data (movies, anime, documentaries…) and maybe keep myself the better/more expensive media for more personal like photos, projects, important data, etc. Not that the spindle/cheaper media must be crap… but you know… still wondering about these but not too concerned at the moment until I decide a drive.


#4

[QUOTE=deanwitty;2657353]I would not try to discourage you from investing in a PR1M, I intend to get one at some point myself.[/QUOTE]

At about $1400-2800 each (depending on version), you should consider getting several! :bigsmile:


#5

Looks like a nice adapter, but the company is not forthcoming with the power rating of their power supply :(.

I suspect that you will need the retail package, as others have complained about the lack of availability of the software that comes with the 207s after purchasing the bare drive.

On the other hand, you may find it far less expensive to buy a Pio207 for burning and a Lite-on iHBS112/312 for scanning. The projected prices for that PR1M at release are frightening. Where are you located?


#6

[QUOTE=jadburner;2657368]At about $1400-2800 each (depending on version), you should consider getting several! :bigsmile:[/QUOTE]

I know :eek::bigsmile:

I intend to wait a bit after the release in hopes of more terrestrial pricing :wink:


#7

[QUOTE=jadburner;2657368]At about $1400-2800 each (depending on version), you should consider getting several! :bigsmile:[/QUOTE]
Damn!.. It was looking too nice to be real…
I got excited after having lost track of… BDR-PR1. Wait is this the same as the one released on January? :confused: I never got to see that one for sale, and seemed to be targeted at companies, or mounted in bigger machines

So I guess I should start looking into the 207 (albeit no scan), how burn quality compares to iHBS (which does scans)?


#8

[QUOTE=Dogway;2657391]Damn!.. It was looking too nice to be real…
I got excited after having lost track of… BDR-PR1. Wait is this the same as the one released on January? :confused: I never got to see that one for sale, and seemed to be targeted at companies, or mounted in bigger machines

So I guess I should start looking into the 207 (albeit no scan), how burn quality compares to iHBS (which does scans)?[/QUOTE]

If you are careful about which media you throw in the drive, you may be better off with a Pio from the 207 family. They made some improvements on the drive design to make it more resistant to internal dust contamination to increase the drive’s lifespan. In your usage scenario, that should be a big plus.

You do not need to worry about region codes. They only apply to playback of commercial movie discs.


#9

I think then my best bet would be the 207, and use media recommended here. I see it’s rather a popular drive so there will be a lot of feedback on its ins and outs.
Maybe in 6 years time (if media don’t die before) Id renew the drive with one able to scan.
are there any hardware/firmware differences between the EBK/DBK?


#10

*I meant if my media/discs haven’t died by the time
I’m reading about media and as you said the Panasonic MEIT02 are good for archival. The problem is I see them in very different formats, 30 or 50 spindle, pack of 20… are there any differences? I only find them as 4x, no one 6x
Also in relation of my initial post this is frightening.
How does that aging compares to DVD aging? worse? similar?

On the same tone I want to answer myself (and maybe useful to other newbie readers) that BD-R dyes are (commonly) inorganic, but at the same time it doesn’t equal to outstanding results. There’s an organic variant called LTH which are organic and cheaper. Anyhow it’s easier to rely on HTL, at least for myself.


#11

[QUOTE=Dogway;2657547]*I meant if my media/discs haven’t died by the time…[/QUOTE]None of nowdays “media” will surpass your time (okay, if you’r 75y now, then they might).

All discs, (CD/DVD and BR) are made of plastics. Depending of the quality of materials used in production of the discs and storing facility, some can last for very long time, some only for a few years.

Always buy quality CD/DVD/BR media like Verbatims/ Tayo Yuden. Store them in a dark and cool place [max. 20C eq. 70F]. Then the blu ray media may surpass your lifetime. YMMW.
:slight_smile:


#12

Judging by this post(and thread), the EBK is the same as 2207 with BDXL capability. The 207D, I believe, does not do BDXL. As the cost of these 100GB discs still remains at $50.00+ea. at the cheapest, some folks are not considering this a necessary option. But if you want to experiment with drive back-ups, you may find yourself wanting this at some point.

That thread you linked to is a great place to watch as time goes by and we continue to see how they do in the real world. Currently, PHILIPR04 are looking like a hands-off proposition for archival. Sold by several cheaper brands like Optical Quantum. Panasonic and Falcon have some 50+ year testing results to make them look like good choices so far. LTH and Verbatim/Ritek look to be a little more short term(though we are probably looking at at least several years for those). My own tests are giving me pretty good confidence in Panasonics and Falcons. My oldest Panasonics are the 4x variety, found on E-bay around $2.00ea. in 30 spindles. If you’re looking for a good second option at a lower price to bring down your overall cost, and use as a secondary backup to give you two copies on high odds longer term stuff, SmartBlu 4x 25GB FTI’s(Falcons) are one of the lower priced quality leaders.

Verbatim and JVC/Taiyo Yuden are not looking like your best archival choices in the world of BD-R.

The longevity testing that’s been carried out to date agrees with your feeling and the opinions of manufacturers/experts that HTL inorganic(done right) will outlast LTH organic. I’m sticking with higher end HTL, myself, for anything important. I also buy and burn, as time allows, a variety of anything available to keep an eye on the industry :). With the help of good friends around here.


#13

[QUOTE=pinto2;2657557]None of nowdays “media” will surpass your time…[/QUOTE]

yes I know :iagree: it was in reference of my previous post, whether they could last 6 years time before I buy a scanning capable drive.

[B]@deanwitty:[/B] Yes, I was also getting that sense, that Verbatims and Taiyo Yuden (which I never heard before coming here) were not so good in the bd-r world. I had SmartBlu and Panasonic marked on the list for the brands to go, also can’t go too wrong with Sony or TDK I guess.

My question really is if talking about brands is enough, you pointed me to SmartBlu list but I wonder which of them is noted as good performing or has the reputation. I guess we are talking about Media ID here…

I also spotted a special Panasonic brand new discs coming in December, Panasonic x6 Century Archival Grade LM-BRS2NWA25. I don’t know whether I should wait a bit and buy those instead.

I’m still a bit suprised, considering myself a bit late joining the party and still seeing that the bluray technology isn’t yet that mature.

Edit: Yes, it looks the DBK model doesn’t support BDXL


#14

[QUOTE=Dogway;2657610]I’m still a bit suprised…still seeing that the bluray technology isn’t yet that mature.[/QUOTE]
Yes! I am still avoiding BD media because of this “lack of maturity”. Seeing hi-quality DVD disk-makers putting out disreliable BDs is galling, in fact. “How dare they!!”

But they’d doing whatever they think they can get away with AND perhaps in a more generous spirit, I understand this ‘lack of maturity’ yields those 'dis’reliable solutions.

Then the price…

I get so fed up with the hype machinery that it’s easy to turn my back on one tech level and claim to be ‘more farsighted’ in my consumerism, but I really want to find a giant loo handle and flush it.


#15

[QUOTE=ChristineBCW;2657614]Yes! I am still avoiding BD media because of this “lack of maturity”.[/QUOTE]

Yes, sometimes it works backwards; first drives being the more solid/robust, etc… Anyhow I’m fed up of waiting and I need an storage solution ASAP, with the help of reliable feedback on this forum BDR users can somehow get away.

Also these days I recommend you to pay attention to CEATEC, they can reveal sensible information on new drives and/or media. I’m not gonna rush to make any move.


#16

[QUOTE=Dogway;2657610]yes I know :iagree: it was in reference of my previous post, whether they could last 6 years time before I buy a scanning capable drive.

[B]@deanwitty:[/B] Yes, I was also getting that sense, that Verbatims and Taiyo Yuden (which I never heard before coming here) were not so good in the bd-r world. I had SmartBlu and Panasonic marked on the list for the brands to go, also can’t go too wrong with Sony or TDK I guess.

My question really is if talking about brands is enough, you pointed me to SmartBlu list but I wonder which of them is noted as good performing or has the reputation. I guess we are talking about Media ID here…

I also spotted a special Panasonic brand new discs coming in December, Panasonic x6 Century Archival Grade LM-BRS2NWA25. I don’t know whether I should wait a bit and buy those instead.
[/QUOTE]
There will likely be a number of BD-R disc designs that will yield 6+ year longevity. At this point I’m making my choices based on a combination of accelerated aging tests, reports here and around the web of which discs are starting to fail or are failing earliest, and my own experience to date. One misunderstanding I should clear up re TDK.

Don’t buy TDKs. TDK came up with some of the best BD-R designs. Then, when it became too expensive to continue producing them in Japan, they abandoned their own designs. The BD-R in current TDK labeled packages is made by other companies, other disc designs, variable quality.

Fortunately, another media manufacturer, Falcon, chose to licence the technology and import the machinery and materials directly from TDK Japan to manufacture TDK’s disc designs back in 2008. They even tweaked the design to make it better. They’re still at it. Sold as Falcon BD-R and SmartBlu 25GB BD-R with TDK MID code. Falcon’s quality grades range from seriously good to excellent. The lowest grade BD-R they will release from the factory is certified to burn 100% within the BDA book spec at rated speed. Their 4x plus grade is certified to burn within spec at any speed your burner is willing to burn it. They rank significantly higher than most manufacturers in keeping to these high standards.

Unfortunately, the long-lived Sonys can be a challenge to get. Sony has been packaging other discs in their spindles as well, and you would need to be certain that the seller was sending you 6x Sony NN3 discs. They can be found, but it requires a little extra vigilance to avoid finding yourself with a spindle of Riteks.

Two manufacturers have shown a desire to refuse to outsource their BD-R’s and have shown well above-average quality control standards. Fortuitously, they also rank among the top in longevity testing. Panasonic and Falcon. When someone is looking for “the best”, the outsourcing policies of most brands is making it easier every day to simply point to these two.

At their release, those 6x 100+ year Panasonics will likely only be available from sellers in the Japanese market, and at a guess they will be priced 2-4 times higher than the current 50+ year discs. Its up to you, but the current Panasonic 50+ year show every indication of getting you well past that 6 year timeline.

[QUOTE=ChristineBCW;2657614]Yes! I am still avoiding BD media because of this “lack of maturity”. Seeing hi-quality DVD disk-makers putting out disreliable BDs is galling, in fact. “How dare they!!”

But they’d doing whatever they think they can get away with AND perhaps in a more generous spirit, I understand this ‘lack of maturity’ yields those 'dis’reliable solutions.

Then the price…

I get so fed up with the hype machinery that it’s easy to turn my back on one tech level and claim to be ‘more farsighted’ in my consumerism, but I really want to find a giant loo handle and flush it.[/QUOTE]

You’re frustration is shared by many, and we’re doing the best we can around here to lead people up out of that maze of bad BD-Rs :slight_smile:

From my perspective, maturity of the technology is not involved at all. Its all about ever-shrinking profits in an ever-shrinking optical media market. We’re not waiting for the tech to mature. Manufacturers’ profit margins are simply making the good tech harder to keep track of.

We keep at it around here, though. We’ve rescued more than a few from the sound of that flushing toilet :bigsmile:.


#17

[QUOTE=deanwitty;2657825]
Its up to you, but the current Panasonic 50+ year show every indication of getting you well past that 6 year timeline.[/QUOTE]
Are you talking about the 6x LM-BRS2MQB25 50 years Archival Grade?
I mean, there are many Panasonic, and yet I’m not sure which one you are refering to. If I do a search of MEIT02, what I see are things like this or this, all rated as 4x, and no indication of 50 years… which variant is the one tested over here? is it relevant, spindle/cased?

EDIT: I read your post over here and it cleared up my mind. Still I’m very confused about media, I just found a thread about fake MEIT02, and another one claiming that spindles (contact on data layer) are bad. On ebay most if not all show “repacked”, what’s that? I’m very confused!


#18

[QUOTE=Dogway;2657836]Are you talking about the 6x LM-BRS2MQB25 50 years Archival Grade?
I mean, there are many Panasonic, and yet I’m not sure which one you are refering to. If I do a search of MEIT02, what I see are things like this or this, all rated as 4x, and no indication of 50 years… which variant is the one tested over here? is it relevant, spindle/cased?[/QUOTE]
The discs that I personally have are this variety, showing excellent resistance to aging.
I see quite a good deal on the 50 spindle available here.


#19

So I should avoid when they say repacking?
Looks like spindles are not problem then… I place an order, and the drive after CEATEC.


#20

[QUOTE=Dogway;2657843]So I should avoid when they say repacking?
Looks like spindles are not problem then… I place an order, and the drive after CEATEC.[/QUOTE]

I meant to mention about that. I would avoid the repacked BD-R whenever possible. Just to remove the possibility that they have been mishandled or are a B grade media not up to that manufacturers normal standards.