We need a Perfect 1:1 copier

vbimport

#1

Ok, in reality, ALL media is stored in either 1’s or 0’s… Because we dont have 400 Chars like the matrix. So we use on/off for data storage. So, doesn’t that mean that a CD is actually a long string of 1s and 0s? Why is there no software to copy that string of characters? How come I cant say, “Ok, the string of binary on this disk reads 1001001001, so let me write on this disk 1001001001.” Why is there no software to do that? Of course, I am no programmer, and have only recently began reading up on C++ and VB and such, so I dont know if this is even possible.

Just a thought.


#2

If it was as simple as that, i think it would have been done already…:wink:


#3

There is big difference between stored data files and stored music/video, the latter is meant to be converted to analog world on “best effort” method.

Well, if there were any 1:1 solution, someone would have found it by now so very many years after the first CD and DVD were invented, don’t you think?

The fact that the data is in stored digital/binary format, does not mean that you easily extract it.

Try reading some text about digital music and digital video beeing stored on optical media, and pay attention to jitter.


#4

its not what you are writing, because you are always writing a 1 or a 0, its how and where, and this leads into discussion of protection


#5

4966206974207761732061732073696D706C6520617320746861742069207468696E6B20697420776F756C642068617665206265656E20646F6E6520616C726561647900

or

01001001011001100010000001101001011101000010000001110111011000010111001100100000011000010111001100100000011100110110100101101101011100000110110001100101001000000110000101110011001000000111010001101000011000010111010000100000011010010010000001110100011010000110100101101110011010110010000001101001011101000010000001110111011011110111010101101100011001000010000001101000011000010111011001100101001000000110001001100101011001010110111000100000011001000110111101101110011001010010000001100001011011000111001001100101011000010110010001111001


#6

I understand what you are trying to say but it’s not that simple. Actually there is a culprit in your thought process. Let me ask you this: if it was simply a matter of making an exact copy of 1’s and 0’s how would you get a point of reference in a CD considering its circular nature? You would need some sort of software recognition to tell you what is where. Now I can fool around with that software to generate some sort of copyright protection algorithm. A very handwaving approximation of the principle but it should make sense.


#7

As a general rule, there’s no particular difficulty in making a perfect copy of the data recorded on a disc.

However, few copy protections these days rely on preventing accurate copying of the disc’s contents. Most rely upon the physical structure of the disc itself.

Further, since copy-protected cds aren’t standard cds and since you can’t buy the blanks as a domestic user, it isn’t possible to make a true 1:1 copy of a copy-protected disc (rather than the program/data recorded on it).

All that you can do (with most protections) is to record the burnt cd in such a way as to imitate the original disc’s physical structure sufficiently to defeat the guard module of the copy protection. [Of course, with some copy protections, e.g. starforce 3, even that isn’t possible.]


#8

You can make 1:1 copies of any CD.

You just need your own stamp-fabber plant :bigsmile:

But yeah; Pretty much all burners have specs defined by the various rainbow-book standards.
99% of copy protections break these standards, which is why any company that uses copy protection can be (And have been) sued if the put the “Compact Disc Digital Data|Digital Audio” logo anywhere on that product.

Frankly, the only reason our drives can read these discs is that they have been engineered to exceed error tolerances, but I’ve had more than one games disc which, after developing a few tiny scratchs, has totally failed, whereas a normal CD you can scratch the crap out of it and it’ll still work.
This is why I started backing up my games, but now I can’t even do that.

Since you buy a LICENCE for a program, companies that use that kind of copy protection SHOULD be OBLIGED to provide you with backups on request, since they’re actively preventing you from backing it up yourself and actually removing your fair-use rights…


#9

Also, there would be no such program as this because some protections exploit the fact that burners are not meant to do certain things (like successfully write some weak sectors)


#10

I see all of your points, which are all valid. As for the person who said something about a point of reference: Isnt the data written in a spiral, starting from a center point, spiraling in one direction outward, like a record?

Its just that with todays copying meathods, I feel like I am getting a 1:.5+.5 Copy. Like its “close” to being the same. Maybe I just dont understand much about copy pertections. Whenever I copy a cd, I use CloneyXXL to determine the type of pertection, then tell Alcohlol 120% to use that, and Go. Some images create perfectly, with no errors, and other images, near the beginning of the disc (This normally happens with safedisk ) I get “Read Error at block xxxx” or something like that. I just let it finish, and burn the image (with no problem) And the CD normally functions perfectly. In cases when in is a game, It installs perfectly, but won’t play. So a quick download of a fixed executable, and everything works fine.

Im sure that the read errors are produced by the copy protection. I just dont know how they do it. Could somone point me at some good documentation I could read to learn a little about this?

Thanks!
–darcmarc

Edit: Sorry for not posting in the “Newbie Forum” Thanks for moving it. :smiley:


#11

Starforce 3? What is that all about?


#12

There are different formats, ON PURPOSE, albeit similar in being digital bits and such. One is DVD-ROM, for data and EXACT read capability, and the other is DVD-Video specification, for NOT EXACT read, for converting to analog signals. Do you for a second believe that MPAA and RIAA would let any electronic company design an easy copy format?
The fact that data is organized in same way, does not mean that you have same commands to access it.


#13

I quote from link data:

Since the binary information can always be copied, the manufacturer must make the operation of his program dependent on the presence of some physical key which cannot be copied. He does this by changing his software so that it cannot run unless some sort of initialization is performed. He then adds some additional program code, called the guard module, which carries out the necessary initialization if and only if it detects the presence of the physical key. This is copy protection in a nutshell:
a modification to the original code to make it dependent on some external action
a guard module to provide the necessary action when it detects the key, and
the key itself.

All copy protection schemes are alike in that they must have these three parts in order to work. If any part is missing, the scheme fails.
So for exampe Safedisc by Macrovision uses a signature of corrupt bits at the start of the disc, these are the ‘block error at 1026’, ‘block error at 1035’ you described you got with some discs using alcohol. The corrupt bits are able to be read, but the tricky part is writing them back to disc 1:1. Safedisc v3.1 to v4.0 have proven to be the hardest yet. If the corrupt bits are not written with 99% accuracy the cd check Guard module that allows the executable to run and start the game will fail.

:iagree: So you can copy the binary digits 1:1 no problem, what you cant copy 1:1 most of the time is the signature on the disc and the structure of the protection.


#14

@darcmarc
Sorry I was away for some time and hence unable to respond. I was only trying to reinforce the need for software recognition. The moment you talk about the need to use pattern recognition then you enter the world of protection, encryption etc. If you didn’t get my previous point don’t worry about it. Most people wrote about the software structuring and protection in more elaborate terms so I won’t repeat them.