Vertex 2E ssd and Samsung NC10

vbimport

#1

I have a Samsung NC10 netbook, which has the usual Acorn N270 1.6 GHz CPU. I am considering a OCZ Vertex 2e 60 Gb upgrade, which reads/writes at 285/275. Would the Acorn cpu be able to take full advantage of the Read /Write speed of the Vertex 2? I believe that the Vertex is mlc. At the moment my drive upgrade is a Mtron Mobo 3525 30gb, which is an slc ssd. This reads/writes at 100/100 according to the spec. I am considering the upgrade to the Vertex 2e, because the extra speed and storage space attracts. When I first went ssd I would only consider slc drives, but this was two years ago. Since then mlc drives seem to have come on by leaps and bounds re speed, MTBF and value for money.

The netbook at the moment is very fast after various tweaks. I have also upgraded the RAM to the maximum .of 2gb and the wi-fi card to 802.11 bgn. I get 300 mbps with my wi-fi router, but this is only academic I think for a home network.

My main question, to repeat, is whether the Acorn cpu would utilise all the speed of the Vertex 2e.

For anyone considering an ssd, especially in a netbook, I can thoroughly recommend them. My main tweaks to utilise cpu power and storage space by the way have been to turn of hibernation, page file and indexing. I am considering next turning off System Restore or reducing the space allocated to this. SSD’s seem so reliable now that I cannot imagine a systems crash. In any case I back-up regularly and Windows installs so quickly on a ssd that a complete re-install would not be much of a problem.

I a very senior citizen, long since retired, and still a newbie. Any help or advice from members would be much appreciated. I much appreciate Bee and her ssd knowledge.and reviews. Merry Christmas to all. John


#2

This question would be best asked in the Hard drive and SSD forum John, so I’m going to move it in there.

Merry Christmas to you as well!


#3

Hi,

since you already have a SSD installed - you may simply check the CPU load during disc usage.
I suspect that your Atom (not Acorn) system can’t make use of the higher performance of the newer SSD on your wishlist.

Michael


#4

[QUOTE=mciahel;2565362]Hi,

since you already have a SSD installed - you may simply check the CPU load during disc usage.
I suspect that your Atom (not Acorn) system can’t make use of the higher performance of the newer SSD on your wishlist.

Michael[/QUOTE]

Hi Michael

Thanks for the rapid response. Sorry for the typo. I did of course mean Atom. Too much Christmas sherry I suppose. How do I check the CPU load during usage please? Would this tell me if the processor is coping with the present speed of my Mitron slc ssd: read/write rate? As mentioned I am a newbie. Subject to your advice, I will probably keep my present setup.

Thanks again

John


#5

You can use windows task manager, there is a performance tab that will show you how much CPU the system is using.


#6

[QUOTE=vroom;2565379]You can use windows task manager, there is a performance tab that will show you how much CPU the system is using.[/QUOTE]

I managed to locate task manager and clicked on performance tab. I do not understand the various graphs and tables I am sorry to say. The CPU usage seems to hover around 2/4% with occassional spike to 70%.
What this means in relation to the read/write speeds of the ssd is beyond me.

Thank you meanwhile for your help.


#7

Hi,

these figures look like a typical idle or light usage scenario. What would happen if you try to generate lots of reads/writes from your SSD?

But in the meantime, I found something better:
The Developer Kit Manual for Intel ® Atom™ Processor N270 and Mobile Intel ® 945GSE Express Chipset
Most interesting part:

Michael


#8

I have a 120GB Vertex in a Atom N330 ION system.
While the Atom can’t make full use of SandForce based SSD, the system is still mighty fast at booting and launching applications, and the 60GB Vertex 2E at least here in the UK is one of the cheapest SSDs you can buy, at £90.


#9

[QUOTE=Dee;2565550]I have a 120GB Vertex in a Atom N330 ION system.
While the Atom can’t make full use of SandForce based SSD, the system is still mighty fast at booting and launching applications, and the 60GB Vertex 2E at least here in the UK is one of the cheapest SSDs you can buy, at £90.[/QUOTE]

Thanks again for your all help, and sorry for the typo (Dee not Bee).

i have almost decided to stay with my Mtron slc ssd, mainly because I still do not know if the Atom cpu even takes full advantage of the present100/100 read/write speeds

The Mtron is still very expensive in the UK . Scan Computers have for sale a 16gb slc at approx £350, which I do not understand! May be a mis-print.

Incidentally Dee, why do slc ssd’s seem to have the same read/write speeds?

John


#10

SLC NAND can store only 1 bit of data, so the cell is either empty of full, so it’s either a 0 or 1.
MLC NAND stores 2 bits of data and has several states, data could 00, 01, 10, or 11. So when a cell has to be written to, you have read the contents, modify the contents, and then write. It just takes a longer to write to MLC NAND, that is why write speeds on MLC NAND is slower than read.

BTW: Early SLC SSDs were very expensive, hence the price of those MTron SLC SSDs.


#11

[QUOTE=mciahel;2565538]Hi,

these figures look like a typical idle or light usage scenario. What would happen if you try to generate lots of reads/writes from your SSD?

But in the meantime, I found something better:
The Developer Kit Manual for Intel ® Atom™ Processor N270 and Mobile Intel ® 945GSE Express Chipset
Most interesting part:

Michael[/QUOTE]

I have Raxco Perfect Disk 11 on my netbook. To generate some read/writes from/to the ssd I ran the defrag function and then also looked at the CPU usage via Task Manager/Performance Tab. The readings hovered aroung 35/40%, with the odd spike to 80/85%. Is this is a legitimate test? If so, what does it say about the Atom’s handling of the Mtron ssd read/write speed? As previously mentioned I have Page File turned off to improve storage space as my ssd is only 32gb. I don’t require Page File as I have upgraded the Samsung NC10 netbook to 2gb which is the maximum the board will handle. I have no wish to download Bench Test software, as I am sure that all the data generated would be above my head. Thanks for the link by the way, some of which I even understood and enjoyed. As I mentioned to Dee, I have almost decided to forego the OCZ Vertex 2 upgrade, as it seems that its read/write of 285/275 would be wasted. Many thanks for your help again. I feel that newbies are made very welcome on this forum!

John


#12

[QUOTE=johnedlord;2565780]I have Raxco Perfect Disk 11 on my netbook. To generate some read/writes from/to the ssd I ran the defrag function [/QUOTE]You shall not run any defragmentation on a SSD. Not even for testing.

Michael


#13

[QUOTE=mciahel;2565830]You shall not run any defragmentation on a SSD. Not even for testin g.

Michael[/QUOTE]

Hi

I have discussed this at length with Raxco technical guys. They assure me that it is perfectly correct and beneficial to degrag a SSD. Perfect Disk Pro, version 11 even has a box to tick and set up the defrag to enable this. The Mtron slc ssd has a MTBF of 2,000,000 hours. The spec mentions that it will be able to read/write 50gb a day for 150 years!!.. The idea that it will wear the ssd out is a fallacy. Enabling the box for the ssd setup consolidates the Free Space as a special function. It has another function for nomal spinning HDD’s called Smart Placement. This apparently arranges the most used and system files on the outer tracks of the hdd platter for fastest access. It also has a normal defrag function.

I have lots of free space on the ssd (72%). This helps a lot both for the operation and a speedy defrag. The only progs I have are Windows XP, Perfect Disk, Virgin Media Security, Adobe Photoshop 7 and other small favourite progs. These amount to 7gb in all. I have a small 5gb recovery partition as the first drive also. This is a EISA configuration. This partion has 2gb of free space. I use the netbook mostly for browsing and emails, as I have a decent desktop PC. I travel to the Far East a lot since retirement and take the netbook along as it only weighs 1.2kg and is rugged with it’s ssd. I am a keen photographer, hence the Photoshop 7 on the Samsung NC10

I would be interested in other members comments on ssd defrags. Raxco are world leaders in this field and their products are used widely on mainframes. I would be especially pleased for Dee’s thoughts.

Thanks again and a Happy New Year to all members.

John


#14

The difference is. Raxco are trying to sell you a product, we are not. :slight_smile:

Defragging an SSD won’t gain you any performance as the reading or writing is not done with a mechanical head like it is in an HDD, moving read/write heads takes time, so the less distance the head needs to move to read or write the next block of data, the faster the HDD is, that is why defragging an HDD speeds things up. On an SSD however, read and write access times across the whole SSD are identical, so moving data around will give you no advantage whatsoever, and because you are moving data around that doesn’t need moved, you are using up write cycles.

MTBF means nothing, as that is the expected life cycle of the electronics in the SSD, not the NAND.
Older SLC NAND has 100,000 write cycles. Modern 34nm MLC NAND has 5,000 write cycles, the next generation of MLC NAND (25nm) will have 3,000 write cycles.

Free space consolidation is different from defrag, it only consolidates free space rather than move data around on an SSD. I’ve tried it, and could never detect any increase in speed, and because even consolidating free space uses at least some write cycles, you are wearing the NAND, even by just a small margin.

Also, you should not be put off an new SSD just because sequential read/write speed will be unlikely to reach 285MB/s, as sequential performance doesn’t make a great deal of difference when the drive is used solely as an OS drive. Vertex 2 has massive small file random performance, probably 50 times faster than that MTron drive, but still under 100MB/s, so you could probably make use of that speed, even in an Atom system.


#15

[QUOTE=Dee;2565836]The difference is. Raxco are trying to sell you a product, we are not. :slight_smile:

Defragging an SSD won’t gain you any performance as the reading or writing is not done with a mechanical head like it is in an HDD, moving read/write heads takes time, so the less distance the head needs to move to read or write the next block of data, the faster the HDD is, that is why defragging an HDD speeds things up. On an SSD however, read and write access times across the whole SSD are identical, so moving data around will give you no advantage whatsoever, and because you are moving data around that doesn’t need moved, you are using up write cycles.

MTBF means nothing, as that is the expected life cycle of the electronics in the SSD, not the NAND.
Older SLC NAND has 100,000 write cycles. Modern 34nm MLC NAND has 5,000 write cycles, the next generation of MLC NAND (25nm) will have 3,000 write cycles.

Free space consolidation is different from defrag, it only consolidates free space rather than move data around on an SSD. I’ve tried it, and could never detect any increase in speed, and because even consolidating free space uses at least some write cycles, you are wearing the NAND, even by just a small margin.

Also, you should not be put off an new SSD just because sequential read/write speed will be unlikely to reach 285MB/s, as sequential performance doesn’t make a great deal of difference when the drive is used solely as an OS drive. Vertex 2 has massive small file random performance, probably 50 times faster than that MTron drive, but still under 100MB/s, so you could probably make use of that speed, even in an Atom system.[/QUOTE]

Hi

Thank you as always. I will stop using the Raxco defrag as you say it wears the Nand. I do not understand this but I will bow to your greater knpwledge.

I will go ahead with the Vertex 2 upgrade also. The extra space will be useful. I will probably load some music and my photography shots. These are on 16gb class 6 SDHC’s at the moment for travel purposed. I may even uninstall Perfect Disk 11, although it has a duplicate file search and delete function. I recently updated my Virgin Media Securtiy and it found over one hundred duplicate files relating to the upgrade. Does a duplicate file search wear the Nand?

Does Windows xp defrag run in the background by the way? If so, I would like some advice re how to disable this to obviate any wear on the ssd.

John


#16

Hi again

I have passed your comments on to Raxco tech guys for their attention. I have just discovered, from a Virgin Media forum, that VM security installs Raxco’s Perfect Disk 10. This runs in the background!! Many of the VM forum members are incensed as this is not stated anywhere on the VMS downloads. Some even liken it Malware or a Trojan and quote the Data Protection Act! These are of course users with ssd’s installed. The dispute is still very current. I will follow developments when VMS reply to the latest forum posts. I will wait a few days and then probably uninstall the VMS software. VMS state that the Raxco software is necessary for some of their security features to work properly. How many other AVS packages run a defrag in the background I wonder??

I omitted your first sentence and last para in my communication to Raxco by the way.

John