Verbatim TYG03's

I have burned close to 500 of these disks from the 25 spindles and they have been perfect. Two months ago I went to re-order and the supplier only had 50-packs.

The first two disks failed to verify after burning successfully. Since then I have verified every disk and scanned about 25% of them. The results are not great, at best PIF total is around 3000 with a max of 3.

After 40 disks there have been no further fail-to-verify disks, however, the disks I have re-scanned concern me greatly.

The following three scans are of the same disk. The first was taken immediately after burning it, the second a month later and the third today.

http://club.cdfreaks.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131188&stc=1&d=1197771641
1_LH-20A1P_KL0N_11-October-2007_00_14.png

http://club.cdfreaks.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131189&stc=1&d=1197771641
2_LH-20A1P_KL0N_02-November-2007_16_18.png

http://club.cdfreaks.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131190&stc=1&d=1197771641
3_LH-20A1P_KL0N_15-December-2007_14_02.png

Correct me if I am wrong, but these disk are deteriating so badly that they will be unreadable in a few months.

The batch number is GH000172. The disks were written at 16X on a Plextor 716SA, Liteon LH-20A1P, Pioneer DVR-112D and a Liteon LH-20A1S.

Are they from India? I got some from Sam’s Club and they were horrible. Reading this forum, and seeing they were from India too, I returned them for different media and saved some bucks and coasters.

They’re TYG03, they can’t be from India. Made in Japan only by Taiyo Yuden.

[QUOTE=Two Degrees;1954925]They’re TYG03, they can’t be from India. Made in Japan only by Taiyo Yuden.[/QUOTE]

Thanks I see now, it could be a hardware issue.

TYG03 is variable quality media. You need a drive with good OPC capabilities to burn it well. Try burning them in a Pioneer or Optiarc drive.

Regards,
TerminalVeloCD

[QUOTE=terminalvelocd;1954997]TYG03 is variable quality media.[/QUOTE]

I agree because I’ve never had much luck with TYG03 media myself either. I’ve
always found it to be quite variable in quality also. :frowning:

[QUOTE=bart_uk;1954871]I have burned close to 500 of these disks from the 25 spindles and they have been perfect. Two months ago I went to re-order and the supplier only had 50-packs.

The first two disks failed to verify after burning successfully. Since then I have verified every disk and scanned about 25% of them. The results are not great, at best PIF total is around 3000 with a max of 3.

After 40 disks there have been no further fail-to-verify disks, however, the disks I have re-scanned concern me greatly.

The following three scans are of the same disk. The first was taken immediately after burning it, the second a month later and the third today.

Correct me if I am wrong, but these disk are deteriating so badly that they will be unreadable in a few months.

The batch number is GH000172. The disks were written at 16X on a Plextor 716SA, Liteon LH-20A1P, [B]Pioneer DVR-112D[/B] and a Liteon LH-20A1S.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=terminalvelocd;1954997]TYG03 is variable quality media. You need a drive with good OPC capabilities to burn it well. Try burning them in a [B]Pioneer[/B] or Optiarc drive.

Regards,
TerminalVeloCD[/QUOTE]

I think he already has :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m mostly concerned about the degradation more than anything.

To be honest, 3000 PIF is totally acceptable so long as:

  • It’s spread out very evenly (not in clumps)
  • The disc is stable and does not degrade

Seems like you got some bad discs there. As I said, the degrading really worries me the most. Please keep a close eye on those discs, isolate a handful of them that you suspect to be degrading and please scan them weekly and post here so we can see if they’re getting worse week by week. I’ve never actually seen or heard of TYG03 degrading so this would be the first case and it would be very useful to document it.

I’ve personally used about 100 TYG03 under the Verbatim brand and they were in 50 packs. They never scanned very well - some discs had around 800 total PIF and others had 3000-5000 PIF total. I believe TY has without a doubt made B grade discs for Verbatim. I’ve seen them fail transfer rate tests (which is like a verify) and I’ve had trouble burning above 8x.

I would strongly suggest to never burn Verbatim branded TYG03 @ 12x or higher. Always go 8x or lower. I have never seen a “nice” scan of Verb branded TYG03. They always have more errors than the so called premium TYG03. I don’t trust scanning 100% but there’s some un-deniable factors with these discs that leads me to think they just aren’t the top stuff we’re all used to.

[QUOTE=cd pirate;1955021]I believe TY has without a doubt made B grade discs for Verbatim. I’ve seen them fail transfer rate tests (which is like a verify) and I’ve had trouble burning above 8x.[/QUOTE]My Panasonic TYG03 were excellent compared to the mediocre Verbatim ones. I definitely have to second [B]cd pirate[/B] here.

(Although I doubt that TY has made B grade discs, but selected B grade batches or had loose QC rules maybe? Some Verbatim TYG03 were good while others were awful, in the same cakebox.)

I haven’t had TRT failures, but then again in my experience especially Taiwanese MCC 03RG20 was often better :frowning:

[QUOTE=kg_evilboy;1955102]My Panasonic TYG03 were excellent compared to the mediocre Verbatim ones. I definitely have to second cd pirate here.
[/QUOTE]

:iagree:

One of the best specially in 25 disc packs

bart_uk : You can get Panasonic TYG03 from svp or you can get Verbatim Made In Taiwan .

I don’t think the discs are deteriorating , there is just something wrong there because “only” PIF is affected while PIE still the same (shouldn’t degradation affect both ?) , maybe dust but then shouldn’t that affect both PIF/PIE ? :confused:

Here is a 3 months old Panasonic TYG03 scan :


I can only look at those Panasonic TYG03 scans and cry.

I have a set of archives on those (Verbie TYG03). I think I might be checking them soon :eek:

Mind you, that said, I burned all mine at 8x.

[QUOTE=Arachne;1955137]I have a set of archives on those (Verbie TYG03). I think I might be checking them soon :eek:

Mind you, that said, I burned all mine at 8x.[/QUOTE]

For ‘test purposes’, I did burn a couple of these disks at 4/8/12X to see if it made any difference to the scans. Most of the Liteon scans came out worse, so I went back to burning at 16X.

The only scan I can find for these disks at 8X was one created six weeks ago on a Pioneer 112D in the other PC. Rescanned today the PIF has increased by nearly 1000% and PIF max has doubled. :sad::sad::sad:



Oh well, if for whatever reason my Verbie TYG03s fail a TRT, I have another set on MBI MCC004, as well as my “everyday use” ones on RICOHJPN R03 (Maxell), so hopefully my butt is reasonably well covered. :wink:

Wait a minute here ! Are you saying that Verbatim TYG03 do degrade that fast ??!! :Z

Please bart_uk , if you can scan with another drive , go ahead and do so .

I really do not understand , shouldn’t PIE get higher too “if” it was really degrading ? :confused:

I am not impressed with the media Verbatim get from TY.
In the last few years I must have done more than a 1000 of each, and I used to think that they were very good …I have a Verb disk with a TY dye/build how could it not be the best ???

But I have moved down and down in pack size, my last order had had 10 x 25 T03, 5 TYG03 and 2 x of the newer 50 TYG03 packs because I hoped that new pack would be more than just a new wrapper.
IMO they have been the worst batch I have had. So much so, that I have used 200 plus disks for give away stuff, over the Infiniti and even the Yellow MCC003 that was planned for working copies and give away.

I have had the same MID’s from Panasonic, Plextor and basic TY unbranded and they [I]almost always[/I] produce a better burn in terms of my scan numbers. My next SVP order will have Verbatim disks in it only on the understanding that where they show the option of a MCC/TY MID I only get MCC, or I will have to go elsewhere, not something I want to do.

Unless I get to see a lot of data to show that Verb TY media is better than anything else out there I will not be getting anymore.

[QUOTE=minaelromany;1955416]I really do not understand , shouldn’t PIE get higher too “if” it was really degrading ? :confused:[/QUOTE] :clap: Definitly. :iagree:

‘Degrading’ (in the sense ‘climatically unstable’) discs always show strong increases in PIE levels and density before showing any significant increases in PIF levels.

[B]to the original poster[/B]: IMO these discs aren’t degrading at all (I mean not in the sense you’re thinking), they simply get heavily dusty or get scratched. These before/after scans look very much like what some users get in defective players, in which the discs get radially scratched.

Strong increases in PIF levels and numbers = physical deterioration of the surface or impurities on the surface. AFAIK of course.

Hopefully Franck is right and the discs somehow got a bit dirty or scratched.

The disks have no visible scratches, finger-prints or any other markings. Some of them have been stored in single CD-R cases and the rest in one of those 160-disk cases. Storage temperatures have been no less than 15C and no greater than 24C. Basically, the same storage conditions as all my other disks, most of which scan the same now as the day they were created.

But anyway, I have now scanned many more of these disks and discovered that the scans above are far from being the worst. :frowning: :frowning: :frowning:

Just to reiterate, these disks were created on two separate PCs with four different types of burner.

The next scan comes from a very clean looking disk created two months ago. Unfortunately, it is not one of the disks I originally scanned. However, it made no unusual noises during burning and verified OK.


Well then, it’s a mistery to me, and certainly not funny for you. :frowning:

It’s a very strange case of degradation. I’d be curious to see what a different scanner would report as PIE variation.[QUOTE=bart_uk;1956013]Just to reiterate, these disks were created on two separate PCs with four different types of burner.[/quote]But the discs shown here were all burnt in a Lite-On 20A1P…?

[quote=Francksoy;1956027]But the discs shown here were all burnt in a Lite-On 20A1P…?[/quote] The disc in post #12 was burned with a Pioneer DVR-112D.

I also think there is an alternative explanation, since the basic error rate (PIE) has not increased, but I’m not sure what the right explanation is, although the scuff mark / dust / fingerprint explanation is usually the right one when PIF increase like this. Such problems are not necessarily visible in normal light even when they are very obvious in scans, so try looking at the discs under a strong artificial light at different angles.