Verbatim Pastel error scans

Hi

Although I have read the thread ‘Interpreting C1/C2 error scans’, I still have some doubt on my burned discs, with the scans shown below.

The CD-Rs used are Verbatim Pastel made by Taiyo Yuden.
Are they what one must expect from Taiyo Yuden discs?

The large errors probably come from shiny imperfections in the dye since they are visible under light.

What do you think please, are those scans poor, good, or excellent?
Any help is appreciated. Thanks

Unfortunately, LiteOn DVD burners aren’t a good choice for scanning CDRs. They don’t report all types of error, so scans can look good even when quite poor.

DrageMester knows the ins and outs of what exact errors are and aren’t reported, so I’m sure he’ll chime in at some point.

Do you have a BenQ DVD burner, or perhaps a LiteOn CD burner to scan the CDRs with?

[QUOTE=Arachne;2123633]Unfortunately, LiteOn DVD burners aren’t a good choice for scanning CDRs. They don’t report all types of error, so scans can look good even when quite poor.

Do you have a BenQ DVD burner, or perhaps a LiteOn CD burner to scan the CDRs with?[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately no :frowning:

Chiming in…

LiteOn DVD burners only report errors that fail C1 correction and errors that fail C2 correction. The normal (and useful) thing is to report both correctable and uncorrectable C1 errors.

In more technical terms, LiteOn DVD burners report like this:

C1 = E31
C2 = E32

And most other scanning drives report like this:

C1 = E11 + E21 + E31
C2 = E32

The best scanning drives combined with the appropriate software will report all of these:
E11, E21, E31, BLER=C1=E11+E21+E31, E12, E22, E32, C2=E32 or C2=E22 and CU=E32

Furthermore, LiteOn DVD burners are very tolerant to bad CD media, so they also tend to report even less errors than other drives would.

This makes LiteOn DVD burners a bad choice for CD scanning (but better than not scanning at all).

There will always be C1 errors (at least E11 and E21 and almost always also E31) on CD media.

In short, your results look good, but don’t jump to conclusions based on scans from such a limited scanner.

I suggest you also perform a reading test, e.g. the Benchmark test in CDSpeed, to confirm if your CDs are easily readable (produce a smooth reading graph).

[QUOTE=DrageMester;2123636]Chiming in…

LiteOn DVD burners only report errors that fail C1 correction and errors that fail C2 correction. The normal (and useful) thing is to report both correctable and uncorrectable C1 errors.

In more technical terms, LiteOn DVD burners report like this:

C1 = E31
C2 = E32

And most other scanning drives report like this:

C1 = E11 + E21 + E31
C2 = E32

The best scanning drives combined with the appropriate software will report all of these:
E11, E21, E31, BLER=C1=E11+E21+E31, E12, E22, E32, C2=E32 or C2=E22 and CU=E32

Furthermore, LiteOn DVD burners are very tolerant to bad CD media, so they also tend to report even less errors than other drives would.

This makes LiteOn DVD burners a bad choice for CD scanning (but better than not scanning at all).

There will always be C1 errors (at least E11 and E21 and almost always also E31) on CD media.

In short, your results look good, but don’t jump to conclusions based on scans from such a limited scanner.

I suggest you also perform a reading test, e.g. the Benchmark test in CDSpeed, to confirm if your CDs are easily readable (produce a smooth reading graph).[/QUOTE]

So if I’m understanding correctly the C1 uncorrectable errors shown in the above scans are then all corrected by C2 correction?

Are those scans typical scans for Taiyo Yuden discs?

[quote=Dsp121;2123673]So if I’m understanding correctly the C1 uncorrectable errors shown in the above scans are then all corrected by C2 correction?[/quote] In that particular drive at that particular time, yes. But with that little information available, you cannot really tell if the disc is close to having uncorrectable C2 errors on that drive and you also cannot tell whether it will have uncorrectable C2 errors on other drives.

Since the uncorectable C1 (E31) are fairly low, chances are good that the disc is not close to having uncorrectable C2 in that drive, but you cannot tell for sure.

Are those scans typical scans for Taiyo Yuden discs?
Yes.

Thanks very much for the help to all.

What drives are recommended for scanning besides the ones stated by Arachne, please?

Best consumer scanners for CD media in my opinion:

BenQ DW1655/1650/1640/1620 (no longer in production)

Plextor Premium2/Premium/PX-760/PX-755/PX-716/PX-712 (no longer in production)

Some older LiteOn CD-RW drives but not some of the later models (and SOHR-5238S and SOHR-5239V) which are too error tolerant in my opinion

Best choices currently in production and/or available:

Optiarc AD-5200/7200/7203 (not the 7201 which is different AFAIK)

Optiarc AD-5170/7170/7173 (but these have terrible build quality in my experience)

There really aren’t many current drives to choose from, that I have tested and consider useful for CD scanning :frowning:

Thanks, DrageMester.

From the list you provided I have only the Plextor PX-755SA. But unfortunately scanning does not work with Nero CDSpeed, only with Plextools. I prefer CDSpeed since it’s more intuitive to understand.

[quote=Dsp121;2124106]From the list you provided I have only the Plextor PX-755SA. But unfortunately scanning does not work with Nero CDSpeed, only with Plextools. I prefer CDSpeed since it’s more intuitive to understand.[/quote] I guess you have to decide between intuitive but uninformative scans with LiteOn+CDSpeed or less intuitive (and slower) but much more informative scans with Plextor+PlexTools.

I know which I would choose! :smiley:

Your Plextor PX-755SA with PlexTools will give you the following information in a C1/C2 scan:

C1=BLER=E11+E21+E31
C2=E22
CU=E32

“CU” on Plextor scans is the same as “C2” with CDSpeed on most other scanning drives, while “C2” on Plextor scans show C2 errors (E22) that are one step away from being uncorrectable (E32) by the C2 error correction layer. This is very valuable information to have from a quality scan.

E32 should be zero on all CDs
E22 should be zero on all good CDs

Great thanks for the help, DrageMester.

Another question if I may, please. What maximum spike value of C1=BLER=E11+E21+E31 one will tolerate for a good CD? Less then 16 or 20?

[quote=Dsp121;2124151]Another question if I may, please. What maximum spike value of C1=BLER=E11+E21+E31 one will tolerate for a good CD? Less then 16 or 20?[/quote] The official limit is BLER < 220 per second (i.e. a maximum of 220), but for good CD-R media I would say BLER <= 50 per second.

Thanks very much for your help, DrageMester and Arachne.