Verbatim/Kodak Gold Media Question

I’ve been using Verbatim Datalife Plus 80min cd’s for a long time (CDR ID info at bottom of page), and have had exellent results. Also using a Plextor 401240a drive, also excellent. I mainly burn audio, with the Verbatim discs i’ve never had a coaster or read problem on any player, old or new. The Verbatim discs are recommended by plextor for all burning speeds.

From all this info it would seem that its a good idea to buy Verbatim. But are they really that good when it comes to longevity? I did some research and discovered that the kodak gold ultima discs are incredible when it comes to this. But they don’t make it anymore. Is there any other brand/manufacturer that makes gold discs? If so is it possible that they would be as good as the Verbatim discs when it comes to burning quality, even though they are not recommended by Plextor for my drive?
Would these gold discs really last longer if burned well?

Info on my current verbatim discs:

ATIP: 97m 34s 23f
Disc Manufacturer: Mitsubishi Chemicals Corp.
Reflective layer: Dye (Long strategy; e.g. Cyanine, Azo etc.)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 73f / LBA: 359848)

Thanks for any and all help.

You’ll find that discs made by Taiyo Yuden will record even better than your Verbatim/Mitsubishi discs. The reason is because the quality control at Mitsubishi is erratic and therefore quality will vary from batch to batch. Just look for CD-R’s that have Made in Japan on the packaging and you’ll most likely find Taiyo Yuden discs inside!

Good luck!

Thanks for the info. Can you give me some brand names that distribute Taiyo Yuden discs?
Also, are there any manufacturers/brands that still make Gold Discs, like the old Kodak Golds?

thanks

just did some more research, found out that Taiyo Yuden only makes Cyanine dye, which is the worst out of the 3. The Verbatim use Azo, which is supposedly as good as gold reflective layer and PhthaloCyanine dye. In any case, where can I still get Gold Discs?

“…which is the worst out of the 3”

Why do you say that? I go by my own tests and I don’t rely entirely on what “professionals” have to say. Taiyo Yuden CD-R’s have very low C1 error rates and I find that Taiyo Yuden makes cyanine discs that match if not exceed the quality of the phthalocyanine discs out there. In fact, if you put a recorded Taiyo Yuden disc under the sun together with a CMC Magnetics phthalocyanine disc, I can almost assure you that the Taiyo Yuden will still be completely readable after a few hours, whereas the CMC Magnetics disc will be full of C2 and CU errors!

Now, if you want a good phthalocyanine disc, look no further than RiTEK. Brands such as Maxell and TDK and many others distribute RiTEK discs. Also, if you can find them, Ricoh discs that are Made in Taiwan are made by RiTEK using the Ricoh phthalocyanine dye forumla and are VERY good discs.

You’ll have extreme difficulty trying to find true gold/gold CD-R’s at a good price these days. Most “gold” CD-R’s out there are simply discs with silver reflective layers that have a painted gold layer on top. I find that gold/gold CD-R’s have a slightly higher C1 error rate straight after recording, but the error rate remains consistant for a longer period of time after recording due to the strength of the gold layer.

Remember, it’s the way a manufacturer uses a particular dye type, not the dye type that they use.

All 3 dye’s can result in good disc’s.
Point is that most compannies want to let you know that one is better as the other.
Mitsui on there site had test data of Cyanine vs Pthalocyanine (mitsui’s own creation). Now they just compared there third generation pthalocyanine disc’s against genaration 1 Cyanine (not the metal stabilized version TDK/TY use) an generation 1 AZO. And offcourse there product stood out superior.
What I am saying is be very carefull with all data companies give you.

I have done putting many disc’s under the sun and I can say that TY cyanine is indeed much better as a lot of pthalocyanine disc’s.
(Acer/Maxell/CMC). Also the AZO disc’s could handle the conditions quite good.

For true gold try MAM (there not completely the quality they were when there named mitsui but still the best gold disc out there. Specially Pro Studio & Medical (which seem to still be of old Mitsui quality) These disc’s are not cheap but Mitsui claims 200 up to 300 years of ageing based on arhenius tests (Kodak claimed 200 based on these tests and MCC more then 100 years for there AZO dye. Since they used slightly different conditions we can’t compare them) These test doesn’t say everything about real ageing quality but at least give you the idea that there quite stable.

Higher error rate with gold disc’s is not true. The best disc I have seen measured on a Semi Profesional analyzer (CDA-3000) was a Mitsui Gold disc. Also The Kodaks that I have are as good as the TY disc’s. So the best Gold disc’s can stand up to the best silver disc’s.
However in theory you can be right because of less reflectivity a disc is harder to read but then it would also explain why Mitsui scored quite high >75 reflectivity is very high.
I know for instance that you are right when it comes to Ritek disc’s but then again the reflectivity of Ritek gold is much worse as there silver disc’s.

Also what the last PC-ACTIVE test showed is that disc’s ROT because of corrosion in the metal layer. With high quality silver and specially gold you don’t have it. But still cheaper silver disc’s (PRinco and that sort of stuff) are problematic.
So it’s not only the dye which decides how old a disc can get.

I won’t recommend Maxell since I know quite some people who had problems with there Maxell manufactured disc’s and while most disc’s today are sold are made by TY or Ritek. There still is a change to bump into Maxell there own product.

Also Ritek isn’t top of the line. There 80 minutes stuff is quite okay these days however there 90 minutes disc’s aren’t still that good. At least that’s my experience.

“Also Ritek isn’t top of the line. There 80 minutes stuff is quite okay these days however there 90 minutes disc’s aren’t still that good. At least that’s my experience.”

90 and 99-minute discs are RUBBISH! JUNK! GARBAGE! They are overrated, expensive and do not comply with CD-R specifications. I only use 74 and 80-minute discs, and all the genuine RiTEK discs I’ve used in the 74 to 80-minute range record with very low C1 error rates. No, they’re not top of the line (Mitsui Gold rules!!!), but they’re very similar to Taiyo Yuden quality-wise. RiTEK is not cheap - it’s competitively priced. Mitsui Gold is EXPENSIVE and hard to find in retail stores, especially here in Australia. Also, Kodak media is no longer produced, but I have 50 of these still unused sitting in my collection! :smiley:

Ritek is these days for me more expensive for me as TY and there performing less good. Okay at high speed on most Lite On’s they come close to TY. But on a lot of older writers they perform just okay and TY just still burns great. So it looks like there less compatible as TY.

Most drive creators start with optimising there drive for TY befor doing another brand. Since TY was one of the companies who set the standard. Only the suckers of ARTEC screwed up.

About 90 minutes disc’s. The 90 minutes ones are quite bad even if I use them for only 80 minutes. For that reason I bought them because they were cheapers as the 80 minutes ones at one of my local stores. Turned out to be quite a mistake

Ritek media below 32x I have experienced mixed results. From excellent (BASF extra, best BASF extra’s I used) to quite bad (Philips). This is the same as the old test reports. Which show Ritek all over the scores. From very good, to bad
So I personally stay safe and buy me some cheap TY’s or (MCC but only for my plex since Lite On has some serious compatability issues with azo dye’s.) for the daily use.

I’ve been burned (no punn’s intended) by nearly every brand and type of recordable out there.

The MAM-A Gold Archive discs are about the only ones that I can attest to having not yet tried, as they are seemingly difficult to find suppliers for and then in stock issues for those claiming to be suppliers.

I’ve been using CD burners since the $700 2x Omni-Writer days. I think that was about 1996.

Unfortunately, total storage precautions cannot always be made for real life uses of the various media types. I can however, identify a range of storage places I have kept my media, as I have always utilized multiple storage locations of important data.

To date, the really dark green 74 minute discs are the only ones from that long ago that are still readable. Absolutely NONE of the other styles from nearly 10 years ago still work. Many of the “big name” and “top quality” brands have even displayed blatant rotting in little over 3 years.

All of the “disc rot” looks like a discolored section within the dyes. Mainly, the disc recording layer, looking through the side for which the laser reads, looks like dalmation spots.

On occasion, I have identified the source to be from microscopic pinhole like markings on the label side, of discs that apparently use the foil itself as the back of the disc (really dumb and rip off concept). This form of rot is NOT what I am concerned with, though it’s still good to know what to avoid.

On occasion, I have also seen a discoloring of the dyes that sem to pop up within the pattern of where “disc safe” (specifically sold for like $2 each, markers made for writing on discs). While this is very annoying, being the claims of disc safe, and especially the inflated price because of those claims, this is also a given issue that can be avoided.

The disc rot that I am most fearful, involves the dalmation spotting on discs that have been burned once, verified, put away in their proper casing. Brands include SONY, Verbatim, Memorex, Maxell, PNY, and more recently KHypermedia.

Again, only the really dark green dyes in a 74 minute format seem to have lasted. I have some sony discs of this style that still work flawlessly, though they were poorly molded and scratch ridiculously easily.

Verbatim 80 minute discs have demonstrated to be < 40% reliable after only 3 years. Memorex and Maxell barely withstand 2 years if even that.

Beyond the dark green dyes being better, I also find that the discs marked as speeds higher than 8x also lack quality. All of my archive needs never exceed 8x, regardless of the discs claimed ability. Despite my recording of all discs at 8x, those rated faster than 8x have demonstrated pathetic quality.

Memorex has been a joke trying to call them on their “100 year life” guarantee. Every time, they claim that they were not stored properly, and that they only guarantee the quality of their craftsmanship. No scratches, stored in the cases they were sold in, stored out of light, in 69 degree Fahrenheit constant data room chambers and these “weren’t stored properly”? Let memorex die an agonizing death of papercuts and plastic parasites like the crap quality they sold me.

My first generation of 4x DVD-R discs (Princo and RiTEC both) are now starting to disc rot. So far, 3 or 4 of the hundreds I’ve used have done this. While I’m hoping this is just a select few that were maybe dropped during shipment or something similar, I don’t know what to do if the “rot” is affecting them as well.

Has anyone heard of gold/gold DVD’s? I have way too much data and photos to use just gold CDR’s.

I did have a 10 pack of Kodak CDR’s. The discs rotted too, but not the dyes. The clear plastic that the laser shines through started fogging in dalmation spots. Quite odd as I can tell that it is INSIDE the plastic and not on the surface. Unfortunately, I don’t know if a 10 pack is really enough to judge the brand in total though, so just add this to the list of observations.

I did have a 50 pack of black PNY discs that appear to be some of the most rugged discs around. They didn’t scratch even when most others did (like dropping them on the concrete when the cd binder fell off the car). I think only 1 of those stopped working after almost 8 years. Don’t know what dyes their black discs used.

Thank you for bringing to life a 3-year old thread.

Hi r1scfactor, welcome to CDFreaks! :slight_smile:

If you’re in North Americe, there’s the Verbatim UltraLife Gold Archival Grade DVD media.

In Europe the equivalent is the Verbatim Archival Grade DVD media.

You might be interested in this thread:

Verbatim UltraLife Gold Archival Grade DVD-R 8X

Yes there are gold dvd recordables.
[B]Full gold[/B]

[I]MPO[/I]
MPO makes them sold under MPO/Hispace/EMTEC they at least make +R for which I have some disc’s arround and EMTEC sites suggests that there might also be a -R version. MPO’s media is rated up to 4x and results at that speed are so far looking good.
[I]MAM-A[/I]
Then there is MAM-A who makes gold dvd-r. However they seem to use stampers from whatever they can get and compatability and support fluctuates a lot. Still they rate these 8x( and in some cases up to 16x.)

[I]Prodisc gold[/I]
Prodisc has a 4x own gold media. Hard to get but it exists. This media is not the same as the verbatim hybrided. This full gold prodisc has a prodisc MID and uses just gold. I don’t have any extra data on how good it is.

[B]hybride[/B]
[I]Verbatim/MKM[/I]
Verbatim has a disc which is actually made by prodisc but is designed by MKM (the mother companny of verbatim) that uses a silver/gold combination.
The silver is at the dye side and is there because silver has better compatability and better reflectivity.
Now to protect the silver layer for oxidation/rotting they put a gold layer on top which seals of the silver.
In theory this would create the best of both worlds. The compatability and playback of silver combined while the disc’s being much more stable.
These are rated 8x. In europe a inkjet printable version exists while in america a non printable version exists. This media also is hardcoated in both cases.

I did have a 50 pack of black PNY discs that appear to be some of the most rugged discs around. They didn’t scratch even when most others did (like dropping them on the concrete when the cd binder fell off the car). I think only 1 of those stopped working after almost 8 years. Don’t know what dyes their black discs used.

Black is most times Pthalocyanine(so far I would allmost say allways). Probably nero can give you the actuall manufacturer of this media. I would be interested in knowing.

So far my green blueish TY’s (some of which are 10+ years old) are all fine.
Infact error levels are as good as Fresh burned TY’s.

GOLD MEMOREX

One thing those memorex gold cd-r’s are made by MAM-A and are the same quality as MAM-A.

Memorex also makes Pro Gold DVD-R 8x Archival.

The ones I have are:

Nero CD-DVD Speed: Disc Info
Basic Information
Disc type: : DVD-R
Book Type : DVD-R
Manufacturer: : unknown
MID : TTH01
Write speeds: : 4 X - 8 X

I think they’re MAM-E using TTH01 code.

TDK ?! :confused:

MAM has (had?) a long going relationship with TDK. MAM used to make TTH01 coded media for TDK.

There is nothing special about gold media.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=195330

Gold is harder to read (reflectivity tends to be inferior), the phthalocyanine dye is really not all that great, and then words like “archival” are nothing more than marketing and sucker words.

Most of the companies touting “gold archival” are little more than the 21st century version of the 19th century “cure-all” snake oil salesmen.

I think the Verbatim gold/silver mix was their way of cashing in on the “must buy gold” idiots, without actually using gold (thereby not harming the quality of their MCC products).

MAM has recently been reading more sites online, so I would toss in an additional comment that any newbie posters you see touting how great their media is, might be a shill. Not sure if they’d stoop to those tactics, but you never know.

[QUOTE=romant17;456113]Thanks for the info. Can you give me some brand names that distribute Taiyo Yuden discs?
Also, are there any manufacturers/brands that still make Gold Discs, like the old Kodak Golds?

thanks[/QUOTE]
Sir.
Kodak’s new gold discs are on sale world wide, and the current gold CDR/DVDR’s and also in printable form are superior to the old gold ones (excellent when first developed) relative to electrical and audio performances, and use a different developed patented technology, but will last for at least 200 years on CDR’s and 100 years on DVDR’s in tests carried out in the States. This information is printed on the media. They also have an extra scratch proof layer.
Borgy

I’d have far more respect for the company that sells Kodak brand media if they instead paid for advertising on the site.

The only post you’ve made that wasn’t about how utterly amazingly fabulous Kodak media was, was a rather odd and possibly libelous post about Ritek…

[QUOTE=Aramchek;2128290]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

I’d have far more respect for the company that sells Kodak brand media if they instead paid for advertising on the site.

The only post you’ve made that wasn’t about how utterly amazingly fabulous Kodak media was, was a rather odd and possibly libelous post about Ritek…[/QUOTE]

:clap: Exactly.

Borgy, we are still waiting for any tests of your new awesome and fantastic Kodak media or for media samples (for CDFreaks’ reviewers).