Verbatim Hardcoat DVD-R versus Taiyo Yuden Watershield DVD-R

The new Verbatim DVD-R sku 95398. Description from Blankmedia.ca:

The Verbatim “Hard Coat” dvdr inkjet disks main advantage is that its surface protects discs from scratching, snow, rain and spilled liquids with its highly water-resistant printing. It is similar to the “glossy” Verbatim inkjet disks except that the surface is matte.

Taiyo Yuden DVD-R Watershield is also out, SKU DVD-R47WPPSB16-WS.

Anyone have a chance to try them out?

Which one looks better? Blankmedia.ca has the new Verbatim DVD-R listed in the glossy inkjet section, yet the description says it is matte surface. Also the Verbatim is cheaper.

I’m very interested in learning about this. I really like using Verbatim media with my BenQ drives, so if there was some way I could still buy Verbatim and essentially get a print-on disk that was smudge and smear resistant, I’d probably buy an Epson CD-Print capable unit and give it a shot.

I’m very confused on the Glossy vs Hard Coat thing. Is the glossy NOT smuch and smear resistant, for example?

Hopefully this thread will yield some good info.

I have been using Verbatim inkjet printable DVD+R DL and I like them. They are matte and they don’t let you print on the hub. I have been hoping TY would make some DL Watershield full face printables. I have tried the TY watershield discs and they absolutely ROCK! You cant do better. They look as good as printing on glossy photo paper, great colors, very sharp, water resistant, dry immediately, and most importantly good disc quality.

(fwiw, I’m using an Epson R340 printer and SureThing software)

So those TY watershield disks really don’t smear or smudge at all?

Would you be so kind as to provide a direct link to those disks so others can check 'em out, including me?

Thanks much.

Hi there, haven’t tried out the disks, but can answer the glossy vs harcoad thing. Glossy surfaces are very smooth, so the ink has trouble wetting and adhering to the surface; hence you get a lot of smudging. A glossy surface has high surface energy - kind of like trying to print on teflon. The ink wants to form beads and not a printed film.
When you make the surface matte, it is roughened, a bit like sanding a surface before painting - the surface energy is lower. This means ink can wet the surface, spread and form a film that has better adhesion; hence better quality.

You could probably do the same thing by lightly sanding the printing surface of a regular disc… it would improve print quality, but may not do much for the rest of the disk. :doh:

Odd. My glossy photo-paper never smears…

Hi again. This is a bit of science geek answer… I need to get out more apparently… :slight_smile:
The glossy photo paper is made by coating with an emulsion of small particles, with high surface area, that are high in absorbency. Usually silicon dioxide or similar is used and gives nice glossy appearance to the eye, but is pretty porus under a microscope. That means is can absorb ink uniformly and will dry fairly quickly, while still looking glossy. Some of the earlier glossy photo papers were so absorbent that they also tended to absorb things like ozone from the atmosphere and cause horrible fading of photos - even when stored under glass in the dark.
So, err, getting back to the point… the ink doesn’t smear because it is absorbed fast onto a very high surface area photo paper that it can adhere to easily.

So why would a glossy photo surface on a printable disk (DVD or CD) not absorb properly, as you indicated above?

Hi again, the glossy photo paper and printable disks are coated with different materials - polycarbonate being much more difficult to coat than paper as it has higher surface energy and a smooth surface.
A general rule is that you can’t coat a surface with a material that has a lower surface energy. Polycarbonate disks have high surface energy, so the printable surface coating has to have even higher surface energy, otherwise it won’t stick to the disk. That means the ink must be higher still to form a good film. Technically that’s difficult.

As far as I know, there have been 2 options for most printable disk media (until this recent development). The first is absorbent polymer coatings that can coat the polycarbonate disks, and swell when inkjet ink is applied, but can also have poor water resistance and lower gloss, plus long drying time.
The second type is a metal oxide coating, which is more difficult to coat onto the disks due to surface energy, is more glossy but gives poorer rub resistance.

The new disks also seem to have been developed with metal oxides - but they have made a big leap in the coating formulation to allow proper coating with the printable layer. I haven’t looked at the patents or anything, but suspect that they have used different metal oxides with “nano-particles” which has a lower surface energy, more absorbent surface.
They sound like a really good development, and I’d like to try some out myself.

Forgot to post this link yesterday:

http://www.primerastore.com/cd_dvd_media

TuffCoat with WaterShield Surface
Primera and Taiyo Yuden announce new TuffCoat with WaterShield discs. WaterShield discs protect against water, rain, snow and spilled liquids. Printed discs have a glossy finish.

Found it while I was on the Primera site - looks as if the TY disks are designed to work with Bravo printers.
CR-R 45 disk spindle SKU 53387 $39.95
DVD-R 45 disk spindle SKU 53388 $45.95

Thanks for the links.

Looks like the AquaGuard is the MATTE finish and WaterShield is the GLOSSY surface and that both of them are designed to be smear and smudge resistant from the get go.

The site and PDF brochure spell it out pretty clearly.

I would guess they will work with Epson CD/DVD capable printers just as well, given that the printers they are designed to work with are also ink jet. Promising.

Now, if I could just see Verbatim come out with some products that are as capable and well defined. :slight_smile:

I don’t see why there should be problems with using them on Epson - they’re both dye based inkjet systems, but inks do vary quite a bit sometimes. If you do try them out, I’d be interested in hearing how they work out :iagree: (since I don’t have a Bravo).

I still don’t own an Epson that does CD/DVD’s but if Verbatim comes out with something similar to AquaGuard and WaterShield, I may just take the plunge.

Thanks for the very informative posts, Prof. Honeydew!

From my information Imation Aquagard uses a nanoporous ink-receptive coating made from ceramic particles.
The nanoporous surface absorbs the ink by capillary action, which will help the ink to dry faster as it bonds with the “nanoparticles” on the disc.

Causing as good as it gets real waterproof. -Only problem Aquagard has a very matte surface because of this.

If my source is right then TY indeed is ussing metal oxide nano-paritcles.
Which causes a more absorbent surface but incase of have it for a longtime in the water can still smudge. Still you have to put it for quite some time in the water (probably on purpose !)

As far as I know this is a error made by blankmedia.ca. These verbatims do not have any of the above described technology.

I’m not so worried about Matte vs. Glossy as long as the ink doesn’t smudge and get goofed by water. :slight_smile:

Sounds like these are probably silica which is usually very absorbent because of porous structure and matte in appearance - but may also have poor light fastness due to dark fade from ozone / pollutant absorption.
I’m afraid I have a problem with anything described as “nanoparticle” technology as it usually seems to be the sort of work marketing people use to describe things that have been around for ages… (at least where I work) :slight_smile: Just my personal issue! They could probably be improved by spraying with photo gloss finish as discussed in other threads.

I’d be more trusting of this surface coating from a general use and lifetime point of view. II agree it’s hard to imagine a situtaion where you may have to wash your CDs / DVDs, so very high level water resistance isn’t a big requirement :iagree: . As long as the disc can cope with high humidity and slight surface contact from fingers / wallets etc, it should be ok. Just don’t spill coffee on it :disagree:

Sorry, I didn’t understand this bit :confused: Did you mean Verbatim don’t have absorbent matte finish or glossy watershield type? Both TY and Verbatim seem to have have licensed technology for the metal oxide coatings, but I couldn’t say whether they’re both in production.

I partially agree. I personally make a difference on who is ussing it.
While the term “nanoparticle” has been there for some time it seems that quite some compannies like to label anything that comes even close to it.

I’d be more trusting of this surface coating from a general use and lifetime point of view. II agree it’s hard to imagine a situtaion where you may have to wash your CDs / DVDs, so very high level water resistance isn’t a big requirement :iagree: . As long as the disc can cope with high humidity and slight surface contact from fingers / wallets etc, it should be ok. Just don’t spill coffee on it :disagree:

Contact from fingers should be no problem for watershielded TY. Infact Even spilling coffee should be okay from what I’ve heard if you clean it fast enough. The problems are when you have water on it for longer time.

Sorry, I didn’t understand this bit :confused: Did you mean Verbatim don’t have absorbent matte finish or glossy watershield type? Both TY and Verbatim seem to have have licensed technology for the metal oxide coatings, but I couldn’t say whether they’re both in production.

Verbatim does use metaloxide coatings that’s right.
However the store made a error on the comments of this media.
The verbatim hardcoat disc comes with a normal verbatim printable layer not something advertised as waterproof or watershielded. THE SKU number belongs to normal printable with video guard (anti scratch coating) protection.(which can be looked up easilly just use google.)

So you can’t compare them when it comes to waterproof.
TY is a special disc which is waterproof to most levels the consumer will need.
Verbatim disc is a ordinary printable with extra protection for scratches.
I hope this explains it.

Hi again dakhaas, that does explain it. Many thanks for the clarification :slight_smile:

I’ve just this evening tried the Taiyo Yuden Watershield CD-R in my Primera Bravo 2 Duplicator/Printer. Gorgeous finish - haven’t yet yried washing them!

Cumlie