Verbatim DVD-R DL and Plextor 716SA 1.08

Just a quicky post I wanted to make. Verbatim DVD-R DL media is on sale here in the USA at NewEgg.com and Meritline.com (last I checked, $16.98 for a 3-pack) and I ordered a 3-pack online (from Meritline.com). I have had a chance to test the first disc. In summary, here are my observations using firmware 1.08:

The good:

So far, burn quality is better than what I have experienced with the Verbatim 2.4X rated DVD+R DL discs. I think this may have to do with bad batches of the DVD+R DL discs, or it could just be that the DVD-R DL media is rated at 4X instead of 2.4X, and hence handles 6X burning better. Either way, with a PIE max of 25 and PIF max of 4 (single spike to 4) for a 6X burn, this media has the best burn quality so far of any DL disc I have tested so far on my 716SA drive.

The bad:

As articles reviewing this media indicate, read compatibility with devices is poor. How could MKM release media that is so utterly incompatible? Of the 2 set top DVD players and 2 computer DVD drives at my place I have read it on (one of those being the 716SA that wrote it), only one of the computer DVD drives (the 716SA that wrote it) and one of the DVD players can read it. So I am seeing substantially less compatibility than the Verbatim 2.4X DVD+R DL, despite the poorer burn quality of those discs that I have experienced.

Attached below are my scans for my first DVD-R DL disc. The PIF scan was in High Accuracy mode, and the PIE scan in Good Accuracy mode. Any comments are appreciated of course.

merged two threads

merged two threads






The DVD Forum decided to do something not at all which the DVD+Alliance has done totally wrong: bitsetting :slight_smile: (why does every manufacturer use different commands for that? They could just have specified commands for that…) I guess the reason is that the movie mafia has still influence in the DVD Forum and have forbidden them to specify something like bitsetting

A lot of drives just assume that a disc with booktype dvd-r only has one layer. This is almost as incompatible as DVD+R DL without bitsetting

Attached below are my scans for my first DVD-R DL disc.
I don’t see any :eek:

EDIT arffff… replied to the wrong copy of the thread :clap:

Oops I accidentally double posted–please refer to the other copy of the thread that has the scans, and end this copy of the thread.

I merged the two threads

Tlotz, that is an excellent burn. Thanks for sharing the scans. I got a better batch of MKM001 (here) and the PIFs error is pretty close compares to your MKM01RD30 above. The total PIE is still high in the second layer though.

I also see that Verbatim seems to fix the 2nd layer problem in MKM003 (Verbatim DVD+R DL 8x) as seen in Wesociety scan in NEC ND-3540A with MKM003.

Just an observation about the differences between DVD-R DL and DVD+R DL. First, terminology. DVD+R DL is called “DVD+Recordable Double Layer” by Verbatim labeling. DVD-R DL is called “DVD-Recordable Dual Layer” by Verbatim labeling. Generally (from my experience), the terms “Double Layer” and “Dual Layer” are used interchangably and mean the same thing (two layers on a single side, 8.5 GB in capacity). Why is there a difference in terminology? Is “Double Layer” and “Dual Layer” some how different? Or does the DVD Forum and DVD+RW Alliance simply use different terms (“Double Layer” to refer to DVD+R DL by DVD+RW Alliance and “Dual Layer” to refer to DVD-R DL by DVD Forum)? Another observation: capacity. Both DVD-R DL and the older DVD+R DL have an 8.5 GB capacity–no surprise there. But DVD+R DL has a 240 min video capacity (according to Verbatim labeling) and DVD-R DL has a 215 min video capacity (again, according to Verbatim labeling). Why are the video capacities different (difference of 25 minutes) if the gigabyte capacities are the same? This sounds like a spec difference; I would guess that the DVD Forum wants to spec it one way, and DVD+RW alliance wants to spec it another way. Who knows. Does anyone know?

Or does the DVD Forum and DVD+RW Alliance simply use different terms (“Double Layer” to refer to DVD+R DL by DVD+RW Alliance and “Dual Layer” to refer to DVD-R DL by DVD Forum)?

that one…

i don’t know about the difference in minutes part…perhaps the lead-in/out area being counted on the +???

Read compatibility depends on the players methinks, not on the media. DVD-R DL is very new and most player are not able to understand this booktype. The advantage of DVD+R DL is that its booktype can be set to DVD-ROM to fool some players (and then the read compatibility is still poorer than DVD-R or DVD+R).

DVD-R DL is very new and most player are not able to understand this booktype.
There is no such booktype. The Booktype of dvd-r dl is dvd-r. And this is exactly the problem here: A lot of players don’t expect a disc with booktype dvd-r to have 2 layers.

Just use a BENQ drive to set a dvd+r dl to booktype dvd+r and you’ll see that you’ll have the same poor compatibility :slight_smile:

Thanks for that info Alex, didn’t know that :doh: But, is my comment still true? Who is to blame for the poor compatibility? The media manufacturers or the hardware manufacturers? I think the latter personally.

As I said, drives don’t expect a disc “labeled” as “dvd-r” to have 2 layers, so they either see 2 layers and wonder what this is supposed to be, or don’t even look for a 2nd layer and just stoping reading after the first one.

I wouldn’t expect multisession dvd-r dl discs to work anywhere, but “normal” ones could certainly be readable on as many drives as dvd+r dl if dvd-r dl had bitsetting.

OFFTOPIC:

If my Philips 737 don`t read the media, can i ask the money back? :bigsmile:

I have to try one of those… :cool:

Mordorr

@alex: does that mean one should simply use DVD+R DL instead of DVD-R DL? :slight_smile:
And set the booktype to DVD-ROM?

They will have to introduce bitsetting for dvd-r dl or they will have to wait until new dvd players are made to cater for it. This won’t help people with current incompatible players however. I do remember when dvd+r dl came out it also suffered the same incompatibilities. It was corrected with new firmwares.

@alex: does that mean one should simply use DVD+R DL instead of DVD-R DL?
And set the booktype to DVD-ROM?
Yes (of course not Ritek)
They will have to introduce bitsetting for dvd-r dl or they will have to wait until new dvd players are made to cater for it.
Don’t forget that the movie mafia is part of the DVD-Forum, and they will probably just not allow to increase compatibility of DualLayer media, whether or not it could be done