Verbatim DLP Super AZO & Plextor PX-716A

/me starts to bang his head in frustration … why don’t you go complain to an audiophile board.

If you really think there is a difference, then stick to the disks you think sound best, and leave the rest of us currently “sane” (but maybe not for much longer) people out of it.

Honestly, I do not understand your comment.

Maybe you need to read again my post.
I have asked a question to which I got a reply, period.

I don’t know why it did degenerate in the other thread, in fact, I am not taking part anylonger to that discussion.

Regards
Alex

Metallo:

Don’t sweat the harsh comments. You asked a valid question to which some responders were “passionate” in their answers. If the subject was “off-topic” for the forum then I would assume the moderator would either close the thread or move it to a more applicable forum.

There are other threads that have explored this issue recently. You might want to check out http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=146658 which deals with your questions/issues, at least to some extent.

Regardless, if you hear a difference then it doesn’t matter what anyone else says. Afterall, they can’t hear the music in your head… or can they? :wink:

Exactly my opinion. :iagree: - I don’t quite understand rugger’s reaction.

I apologise for my outburst … But as this thread is not marked in any way as one of those threads where people yet again argue back and forth about about how different audio CDs sound, it got me upset.

Please label the topics appropriately, so that people like me who have already wasted as much time as they want on this inane topic don’t have to read it.

To the OP, your likely problem is due to the conversion of 192kbit MP3s into WAV files that you then proceed to play on a high end equipment. 192kbit MP3 audio simply doesn’t have the resolution to satisfy high end audio equipment simply. This goes doublely so if you downloaded these MP3s from the internet. But hell, what use is a logical answer in a thread like this anyway.

Well, I did not refer at all to the sound in the title, as an attempt to avoid what in fact happened anyhow :frowning:

I disagree, it cannot be because I get a good sound with all the other brands for the same files.
It just sounds harsh on the Verbatim.
Since also for me is a pain, I want to find out if this has something to do with the autostrategy settings, but I am not optimistic given that those discs are very popular, therefore they are certainly included in the autostrategy DB of my Plextor (which is always updated with the latest firmware) :sad:

Thanks anyhow mates.

Alex

OK guys, here is the reason why the Verbatim sounds awful.

But first, let’s start with my quote in the very first post:

Anything I can do with Varirec?

Yes, you can indeed :smiley:

Varirec, offers a “default” recording strategy, but if you scroll the list of the ones offered as preset, you get 6 different ones, guess what the first one is?AZO :iagree:

I re-burned the Verbatim with AZO recording strategy and voila, it now plays like all the other brands.

This is because, with AZO discs you need a different laser power in order to get the best out of them.
Only if your player offers the possibility to adjust the power, you can get a decend sound.
In fact, if I burn the same disc with my other Plextor drive, I get the same crap.

For information, the other pre-defined strategies are:

  • Cyanine
    Phthalocyanine A
    Phthalocyanine B
    Phthalocyanine C
    Phthalocyanine D

So, watch out when you burn your discs :wink:

Regards
Alex

So does it mean you were always burning your discs with Varirec on? :eek:

I’m asking because Varirec is a very controversed feature.

Actually all modern writers will adjust the laser power according to the media and the speed used. Varirec is a “tweaking” utility that has not been proven as being superior to well-implemented write strategies. Plextor claims so, but actual testing has shown that Varirec may actually WORSEN jitter with certain media…! (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Articles/Specific.asp?ArticleHeadline=Jitter+Tests&Series=0&index=3). In my humble opinion these tweaking features are 99% marketing hype.

As for audible differences, Plextor’s claims (as well as Yamaha’s ones with Audio Master) have not been proved, either, by any serious study. These “audible differences” would be, according to a wide-spread theory, due to jitter. Sadly this theory is also a quite controversed subject… at least wih high-quality standalone players that are more or less immune to transport/medium-induced jitter.

Whatever, to my point now: what is the rated speed of your Verbatim discs? I would be interested in knowing what happens if you simply burn them at their rated speed, with Varirec totally disabled.

Of course if that’s what you did before and got these “harsh-sounding” discs, forget this ranting of mine. :o

“You drove this discussion out of topic or at least to something different from what I originally meant into my original thread.”

I did? Are you sure? Why then, do you think, I opened a NEW thread to discuss about audible differences between different media? :slight_smile: Furthermore, I was also reacting to your statement: “Unfortunately, I have to contradict you, in principle they all sound different but the difference is in most of the cases acceptable and very subjective, meaning that you like more or less the difference in tonality.” - If you don’t want others to step into the room, don’t open the door :wink:

Anyway, happy for you that you may now use these Verbs :slight_smile: - cheers

So does it mean you were always burning your discs with Varirec on?

No I did not use Varirec before.

I’m asking because Varirec is a very controversed feature.

You seems to be more interested into reviews than sound :wink:

To me is very simple, you remember cassette recorders? For the same tape you could, calibrate the bias of the tape, according to the tape.
Some of the more expensive models used to do it automatically.

With CDs is the same story, Varirec does that, adjust the laser power according to the layer of the disc.
BTW, if Plextor built in a default preset for AZO it means that they have seen it gives better sound results, which has been in fact my case.

I could burn my CD at 4x or 8x, I chose 4x.

I did? Are you sure? Why then, do you think, I opened a NEW thread to discuss about audible differences between different media? Furthermore, I was also reacting to your statement: “Unfortunately, I have to contradict you, in principle they all sound different but the difference is in most of the cases acceptable and very subjective, meaning that you like more or less the difference in tonality.” - If you don’t want others to step into the room, don’t open the door

In the context, was important to point out that my case was not “that” sound difference, but something else, in order to avoid to talk about something else. But, finally, I did not succeed because you brought it up in the other thread :doh: , but that’s not an issue anyhow. :wink:

Anyway, happy for you that you may now use these Verbs

Yes, at least I won’t throw away the spindle :cool:

Cheers
Alex

!! :eek: Right, that’s why music, sound engineering and loudspeakers DIY are my favorite activities. :rolleyes: I’m beginning to think that you would say about just anything to get rid of rational contradiction. I love using my ears, but I happen to think with my brain, not my ears.

Sure I remember, I did it manually with my Nakamichi’s back in 1978. The difference in sound restitution was not only (of course) audible, but actually easily measurable as it changed the frequency response in the upper register. Which is not the case with any laser power tweaking utility: the claimed difference in sound has never been actually measured. Prove me wrong…

Hu. :eek: Very simple, bias calibration for tape recorders = Varirec for CD writers :eek: You’re joking when making this statement right? LOL - If not, this is kind of embarassing as it sounds like you have serious issues in understanding these things!

Whatever. I’m done with this discussion, as you’re obviously not interested in discussing, you already know everything. :rolleyes: - and your problem is solved anyway so let’s both get over it and move on, OK? :slight_smile:

Too bad… I was learning a lot reading this thread… LOL

Right, that’s why music, sound engineering and loudspeakers DIY are my favorite activities.

Music, Hi-End and Loudspeaker DIY and more are my hobbies since I was a little child :bow:

I’m beginning to think that you would say about just anything to get rid of rational contradiction. I love using my ears, but I happen to think with my brain, not my ears.

Yes, but the only thing that matters in our activity/hobby is the sound :bow:

Sure I remember, I did it manually with my Nakamichi’s back in 1978. The difference in sound restitution was not only (of course) audible, but actually easily measurable as it changed the frequency response in the upper register. Which is not the case with any laser power tweaking utility: the claimed difference in sound has never been actually measured. Prove me wrong…

Here is where we have different opinions, measurements are important, but are not the decisive factor in sound quality. According to your principle, it would be easy to buy a good piece of equipment, just take the one with best specs :eek: :eek:

Very simple, bias calibration for tape recorders = Varirec for CD writers You’re joking when making this statement right? LOL - If not, this is kind of embarassing as it sounds like you have serious issues in understanding these things!

It seems to me you have a great issue to distinguish between “technical” aspect and “comparison” finalized to the result.
Yes, bias calibration for tape recorders = Varirec for CD writers, absolutely.
The bias calibration influences the sound, Varirec influences the sound.
Both, have been created to enable machine and media to reach the best matching and give the best result.
Technically they may be two different things, but the final purpose is the same.
It’s not a case if more companies are coming out to the market with different solutions for this, because they are realizing it was time to fill in this great limitation :bow:

Whatever. I’m done with this discussion, as you’re obviously not interested in discussing, you already know everything. - and your problem is solved anyway so let’s both get over it and move on, OK?

And you? you don’t know everything? :eek: :disagree:
The fact that we have been writing many posts it shows that both of us are available to discuss, but we have a different view to see things, however, I never made you such a silly statement. I simply don’t share your view, but I do respect it.

Take care :wink:

Alex
:bigsmile: