Verbatim CMC -R : spikes in the metalized layer ?!

vbimport

#1

hey there,

I’ve already had that problem on crappy MAM-E DVD-R 4X media(MCI4XG01) and over time the spikes were getting longer and longer, the data on the outter edges becoming unreadable after a few years :frowning:

in the mean time I bought some MAM-E DVD-R 8X(TTH01), that had VERY low PI/PO rates on my Pioneer DVR108, yet some of them also had spikes in the metalizing layer on the outter edges.

yet, after 3 years they still seem fully readable :slight_smile:

since then, I’ve also seen the problem on Verbatim DVD-R 8X(TYG02) made by Taiyo

and now I’m also encountering it on some recent Verbatim DVD-R 16X(MCC03RG20) made by CMC(hub code starts by MAP…), I’ve never had this problem on MCC-made MCC03RG20 :frowning:

here’s some photos from the top, I wasn’t able to take photos from the recordable side…it wouldn’t show because of all the reflections.

at some point I spoke about that problem to the Product Manager of MAM-E, and he told me these spikes did not reach the data portion, and only an unstable dye could “kill” the data(ie. their old MCI4XG01), not spikes in the metalizing layer.

but some of the spikes clearly make it to the data portion on these CMC Verb :frowning:

what do you guys think ?

I’m kinda P%SSED OFF that even Verbatim has these issues :a

these CMC-made Verbatim discs are dirt cheap, but it shows!

and because MCC and CMC can’t be recognized from the outside(MIT), then I’m screwed! :o

I’ve seen the same thing on TDK +R media too(MAM-E made ?)

Thanks for any insight,


#2

How did you store these discs :slight_smile:


#3

these are brand new, from the original spindle.

bought them 2 weeks ago.


#4

well I think the MAM-E Product Manager was right :slight_smile:

this is with one of those brand new MCC03RG20 with pretty ugly outer edges(I burned it yesterday) :

burned at 8X on my Pioneer 108, and read at 6X in that Liteon reader(the huge spike is a bug in the drive fw).

I’ll try to find the worst disc in that splindle, and check how good it does in KProbe2.

my only concern is that these spikes usually get larger overtime :frowning:


#5

[slightly off-topic]

Do you have any comparison scans?

LiteOn’s DVD-ROM drives and COMBO drives CAN scan, but the scans look uglier than scans done on DVDRW drives look, making it harder to compare relative to other scans seen around the forum.

Doing a Transfer Rate Test with CD DVD Speed or with KProbe [click on the “Performance” tab with that disc in the DVD-ROM, make sure that neither “Write Transfer Rate” and “Simulation” are not checked, and click “Start”] with the DVD-ROM can tell volumes about the actual quality of the disc.

[end off-topic]

I wouldn’t worry too much about your discs. Verbatim discs are usually one of the best options for longevity, when treated properly. :slight_smile:


#6

well the idea was to see if I ended up with HUGE spikes at the end :slight_smile:

I’ve scanned quite a lot of discs on that drive, and it’s a good scan(comparing it to other discs burned and scanned in the same drives at the same speeds).

I’ve got some older scans here :
http://club.cdfreaks.com/1936758-post30.html

I’ll dig up in my oldest [B]MAM-E[/B] TTH01 that also had ugly outer edges, and we’ll see how they do 3 years later :smiley:

but I think the MAM-E PM was right, all that matters is the dye stability, and a PI/PO scan can’t show you that(he was using the CATS professional scanning device, like cdrinfo).

I’ve also seen this problem on Tayio Verb TYG02, I think if even Taiyo exhibits this problem…this means it’s not such a big of a deal…after all ?!

as I understand the metal layer is used for reflectivity, but there’s some ECC on the disc anyway :smiley:

anyhow, next time I’ll buy some TYG03 Verb I think, just to be on the safe side…even if their scans don’t look as good as the MCC03RG20 on my set up, at least their edges don’t look ugly…


#7

I really hate it when I’m right :frowning:

this is with a CMC MCC03RG20 :

the last file on the disc is unreadable, and if you look very closely you can see holes in the dye.

error;compare;content mismatch (98% match, first difference [B]: 529530880, mismatching [B]: 7862392/537393272) (code: 62)

this disc is 2 weeks old, don’t pay attention to the spike in the middle it’s a bug in the drive firmware.

luckily I ordered 2 100x spindles, one is CMC with this crap(hub code MAP4xxxx)…and the second one is Prodisc(hub code 7259E0524-09312E02) and they have perfect edges as you would expect from Verb.

I guess I won’t order anymore MCC03RG20 in the future, you never know if you’ll get CMC crap or quality Prodisc :frowning:

what about Verbatim TYG03 ??


#8

These days i use Verbatim MCC03RG20 or MKM003 for backups. All FF printables. I get them from svp.co.uk and for about a year or more it’s been a flawless solution. Can’t say i know the future but i have high hopes in these :slight_smile:

(Even in the early days of MCC03RG20 they seemed ok with my writers and in your case i’d consider upgrading writers … I don’t think you’ll be more pleased with Verbatim TYG03)

(If there are defects in the dye the discs should obviously be replaced)


#9

well is their hub code MAP4xxx ?

I’ve always made perfect burns with my Pioneer 108 at 8x.

Prodisc made MCC03RG20 has perfect edges, result is perfect thanks to the very good dye.

but these CMC discs are faulty…and all the discs in the spindle had spikes in the metal layer on the outer edge.

even this one has tiny HOLES in the edges because they look so bad, which ends up with CRC errors :a

I guess this will get worse and worse overtime for the discs that are still readable today, god knows if these discs will have readable outer edges in 1/2/3 years.

I can’t afford to order MCC03RG20 and HOPE that I will get Prodisc media.

so TYG03 Verb’ sounds like a good option ?!


#10

MAP4 is rare. MAPA sounds better, and usually MAPA is very good media.

I’m sorry that you’ve had this issue, but maybe try TYG03.

Not to insult you, but how are you handling the discs?


#11

lol these are brand new, got them off the splindle, put it in the burner then check it in a liteon 16x with cdcheck.

I store my discs in wallets, and I take great care of them :wink:

after a closer look, it’s MAP64xxx, yeah I guess TYG03 can’t get any worse than that …

PS : that’s weird that you don’t allow edits for previous posts ?!


#12

There’s a 30-minute limit for editing [for various reasons]. So as long as you edit your post before the time reads “28 minutes” ['cause it’ll take you a minute or so to do most quick edits and submit them], then you’ll be good.

Now, I have 1 more question: In what drive are you reading back the bad media? The same JLMS XJ-HD166S? I’m not talking about scanning; I’m talking about the retrieving of files. Does the drive that wrote the media read the media fine?

Sorry, 2 questions: With what drive did you write? I think I missed it if you posted it. :o


#13

I’ve tried in my 3 lite-on(identical) and in the burner, at various speeds with CDbremse and IsoBuster.

you can see HOLES in the dye on the outer edge.

you can’t read data that’s not physically there, obviously :frowning:

I burned them with a Pioneer 108 at 8X, it burns MCC03RG20 perfectly when it’s not physically faulty…

anyhow I’ll dump this trash, and will order Verb’ TYG03 next time :slight_smile:


#14

Sounds good to me. :smiley: Again, sorry you had this trouble…not usually an issue. :confused:


#15

yeah thanks, well it’s far from being the first time that I’m being sold media with spikes in the outer edges…and I know it ends up BADLY a few years later, if not instantly.

apparently, I’m the only one that really looks at his media edges and runs cdcheck compares ?!

I’ve seen some TDK +R 16X with ugly edges as well.

the Prodisc MCC03RG20 look so good…how good is Prodisc branded media ?

they use some low quality dye for their own media I guess ?


#16

Prodisc isn’t usually bad, even with its own stuff. It’s own stuff is just hard to write with some drives.

Prodisc MCC 03RG20 is usually just as good as the others. Every person has his or her own preference. You may just be one who is meant to prefer Prodisc MCC 03RG20, or maybe just stay with TYG03.


#17

I love properly made MCC03RG20 :slight_smile:

never tried the MII stuff, and don’t plan to…don’t like surprises :smiley:


#18

Mine are MAP64… as well. Excellent discs. If you’re near UK i think you could live with the Verbatim FF printables from svp :slight_smile: Otherwise i have no problems with TYG03 either and perhaps MCC004 is a good choice too… :slight_smile:

Sorry i din’t look closely to your picture before but the 3rd picture clearly shows a [B]defective[/B] disc. Where do you buy it… and this should be a free return :slight_smile:


#19

yeah I’ve bitched to Verbatim, they want me to send them the spindle…but these things are heavy, not sure it’s worth it.

yeah I’ll go with TYG03 next time, never really trusted +R for some reason :smiley:

so your MAP64 have perfect edges ? just as clean as Prodisc ?


#20

Yep, i’m though a few 1000’s and they are all flawless. Reason i switched from the MCC004 is that i had 200 discs with different QS profile than usual. Still i think the discs are ok but they all had a PIE “mountain” in the middle of the disc. Not enough to bother with svp costumer service but enough to make me switch. No visible defects on the discs though.

I’d think it’s easier to get the refund from your retailer than Verbatim - or should be at least :slight_smile: