VCD Duplication Problem!

I have a Compaq laptop Celeron 700, 320 MB RAM. I don’t touch the laptop while reading or writing from Clone CD.

My Reader: Toshiba (DVD) SD-C2502. I think it’s an 8x
My Burner: Benq (Acer) External USB 1.1 model: CRW 8x8x24, but using USB it’s rated at 6x4x6.

Earlier, I was using Clone CD 3.0.9.1 & it worked absolutely perfectly for me … for all duplications be it audio, video, games, etc.

I am now using Clone CD 4.0.1.10 (Clean Install over Win XP)

I have been copying some game cd’s … no problems. I’ve even copied audio cd’s without any problems.

I recently tried to duplicate 2 different titles of VCD’s & while playing back the VCD’s in my commercial player, every 10 secs the VCD video freezes to a still & audio gets muted … the VCD counter however ticks 5 secs of playback time (in picture freeze & mute mode) & then playback resumes for another 10 to 15 secs. The entire cd is like this. My commercial player is fine. It’s a copy problem.

I used the “DATA CD” profile to read & write the VCD. I am reading & writing at max speed. It seems to read at around 5.7x & write at 4.7x.

Q) I read on this forum that I should perhaps use the “AUDIO CD” profile to duplicate VCD’s. Is that so ?

Q) Do I need to reduce my read or write speeds ???

Q) Also do I need to tick the Amplify weak sectors ? Are there any advantages/disadvantages to leaving it ticked on ?

Sorry for so many questions but I’m just a basic user of this software. I usually hit the read & then the write & it’s always worked for me. I simply love it but am very baffled now. These VCD’s don’t have any copy protection. I’m sure it’s my settings.

Could some of you gurus please help ?

Thx & Best Rgds,
Prakash
simran@omantel.net.om

I need to back-up some 5 movie VCD’s immediately before giving them to my kids to watch.

Coould someone please please reply ASAP !!

BTW, I made a back-up copy of one Audio CD yesterday using the audio CD profile & it works perfectly.

But which profile to use for Video CD’s ??

Please help someone …

Thx & Best Rgds,
Prakash
simran@omantel.net.om

Use the Multimedia Audio CD profile. Read to disk then write to disc :slight_smile: That’s all.

Because CloneCD simply duplicates the original you can actually use any profile most of the time it’s just that some profiles have the little tricks switched “on”.

VCD= no FES, no AWS, no nothing except Audio subs if there happens to be some Red Book Audio :wink:

@FutureProof

Is burning VCDs in DAO mode safe?

I thought VCDs should be burnt in RAW-SAO mode only.

Thats why I am still sticking with CloneCD 3.

Couldn’t find the RAW-SAO in CCD4.

I have backed up many VCDs in RAW-SAO mode using CCD3.

My last CloneCD 3.x version was: CloneCD 3.0.9.1

Q1) Is this version compatible with WinXP Pro ?

Q2) There was a CloneCD 3.3.x ver around I believe before they went onto 4.x. Can I still procure the 3.3.x version from somewhere ? I’m currently using 4.0.1.0 & would also like to keep a 3.3.x version alongside especially for VCD copying ??

Thx & Best Rgds,
Prakash
simran@omantel.net.om

Don’t remember the exact version but, i had a ccd3 on my winxp & had no probs.

I’ll check & tell exact version number.

Originally posted by darshanjog
[B]@FutureProof

Is burning VCDs in DAO mode safe?

I thought VCDs should be burnt in RAW-SAO mode only.

Thats why I am still sticking with CloneCD 3.

Couldn’t find the RAW-SAO in CCD4.

I have backed up many VCDs in RAW-SAO mode using CCD3. [/B]
Yes. No. No need - its subs function is basically ‘broken’, Olli’s words not mine. If you’re looking in the right place and it’s not there then you’re burner is not compatible in that mode

Thank you very much FutureProof.

Now, I will not have to maintain 2 different version of CCD on my PC.

Personally clone cd is the last thing i would use for vcd , reasons 1) designed for mode 1 protected game cd’s 2 ) There is a generation loss (this is stated on clone cd site). Use a ‘software’ reader eg nero and everyone will be just perfect

My earlier burner - an HP 9140i (9100b) was not capable to burn RAW-DAO.

It used to only burn in RAW-SAO mode.

Thats why I must have not been able to see the above options.:bow:

So, I couldn’t use CCD4. Now as I have a Lite-On 48x, I will surely use CCD4.

@kunalwadhwani

I have CloneCD 3.3.4.1 & it worked fine in XP.

@JoeSoap

2 ) There is a generation loss (this is stated on clone cd site). Use a ‘software’ reader eg nero and everyone will be just perfect

What is this generation loss ???

Originally posted by JoeSoap
Personally clone cd is the last thing i would use for vcd , reasons 1) designed for mode 1 protected game cd’s
What do you know about this? It’s a duplicator/replicator. What’s on the original goes onto the copy, with some exceptions, which won’t affect VCDs.

Originally posted by JoeSoap
2 ) There is a generation loss (this is stated on clone cd site). Use a ‘software’ reader eg nero and everyone will be just perfect
The generation loss is related to copies of copies. What’s a ‘software’ reader? Do you know? Nero can do the same job as CloneCD, with the right equipment, albeit slower. What about DiscJuggler? It’s still, technically, the best SafeDisc duper on the street; just less intuitive to use.

I feel you are misleading. The Liteon 163D and CloneCD are widely touted as the best overall combination for VCDs.

Futureproof & Darshan … thx for yr lovely responses.

Futureproof I have a few more questions :

What is the difference between DAO & SAO ? I previously had an old HP 7510e external (2x) burner 2 yrs back (pls don’t laugh) & it could only burn in RAW-SAO not DAO mode. But with CloneCD 3.x it made perfect copies of just about anything I threw at it.

My current Acer/Benq external USB 8x8x24 is compatible with RAW DAO but not RAW SAO. Which mode is deemed better & why ? Is my current writer bad ??

When I’m copying AudioCD’s / VCD’s / Game CD’s / Data CD’s, which speed do you recommend I read at ?

Thx & Best Rgds,
Prakash

Originally posted by kunalwadhwani

What is the difference between DAO & SAO ? I previously had an old HP 7510e external (2x) burner 2 yrs back (pls don’t laugh) & it could only burn in RAW-SAO not DAO mode. But with CloneCD 3.x it made perfect copies of just about anything I threw at it.

Look at DAO, SAO and TAO like this…

Disc At Once means that the contents of the disc are known from the start. It’s written from Leadin to Leadout in one go up to the limit of the disc. The disc is closed and no further data can be written. If you write only 99 MP3 songs, then that’s it, no more, but there’s room for more! (about 299 songs/700 MB) Disc-at-Once is primarily needed to record audio discs with a variable (or no) gap between tracks (for example, live concerts). It is also necessary to record CD-Text information on a disc, or to create custom gaps or fades between tracks.

Session At Once means that you can write contents, again known from the start, but you can add other sessions until the disc is full. But a new leadin and leadout is written each time with about an extra 23MB of overhead. So session 1 can be 99 MP3 songs and session 2 can be another 99 MP3 songs and so on. You will lose 23-25 MB for each session; obviously, if you get your songs in one sock at first then DAO will be able to pack more on because there’s only one Leadin/Leadout overhead. Once you close the disc, again that’s it. Session-at-Once is used primarily for CD Extra. In Session-at-Once recording, a first session containing multiple audio tracks is recorded in a single pass, then the laser is turned off, but the disc is not closed. Then a second (data) session is written and closed.

Track-At-Once means that data sessions are written as tracks. In Track-at-Once recording, the recording laser is turned off after each track is finished, and on again when a new track must be written, even if several tracks are being written in a single recording operation. Tracks recorded in Track-at-Once mode are divided by gaps. If a data track is followed by an audio track, the gap is 2 or 3 seconds. The gap between audio tracks is usually 2 seconds. There is nothing that can be done by the software to suppress or reduce the gap, unless both recorder and software support variable-gap Track-at-Once. As stated, each time a track is finished, the recording laser is stopped, and two run-out blocks are written. When the laser is started again to write another track, one link block and four run-in blocks are written. These blocks don’t affect data tracks because you never read between data tracks, but they are a problem for audio because in some audio players you might hear a click when the link and run blocks are encountered between tracks. These link blocks may also cause problems if a disc is to be mastered and duplicated at the factory, and many disc replicators refuse or remaster Track-at-Once discs. For professional audio use, you need Disc-at-Once. You can only write 99 tracks to one disc, which means that it’s a limit of 99 MP3 songs from the get-go. Obviously a waste of space when over 250 MP3 songs of about 2-2.5MB each can be written as DAO (personally, I encode to 8-12 MB depending on size but high quality)

The MP3 analogy extends to data and the way we duplicate in CloneCD. If CloneCD can control the way it writes (DAO) then the backup can be written ‘perfectly’, especially when streaming sub-channel data. Fabrice Meuwissen from VSO - Blindwrite would say that SAO is better but that’s a different story in its own right

Advantages of Disk-At-Once (DAO) Recording
Recording in disk-at-once mode writes the complete disc, i.e. lead-in, one or more tracks and lead-out, in a single step. The commonly used track-at-once (TAO) mode writes each track independently which requires link blocks between two tracks. Older CD-recorder models forced a two second pause (pre-gap) between two tracks whereas newer models allow adjusting of the pause length in TAO mode reducing the number of link blocks to a minimal amount. However, with TAO it is generally not possible to define the data that is written in pre-gaps. But exactly this feature makes audio CD recording interesting, e.g. by creating hidden bonus tracks or track intros in pre-gaps like it is common habit on commercial CDs.

Finally, DAO recording is the only way to write data to the unused R-W sub-channels for e.g. CD-G or CD-TEXT.

Features[ul][li]Full control over length and contents of pre-gaps (pause areas between tracks).[]Pre-gaps may be completely omitted, e.g. for dividing live recordings into tracks.[]Control over sub-channel data like: catalog number copy, pre-emphasis, 2-/4-channel flags, ISRC code, index marks[]Support for exact audio, data and mixed mode CD copying.[]Support for R-W sub-channel writing.[]Tracks may be composed of different audio files supporting non destructive cut.[]Accepts WAVE and raw audio files.[]CD-TEXT reading and writing with drives that support it.[]CDDB access to automatically create CD-TEXT data.
[/li]Support for on-the-fly copying.[/ul]

Note: Track-at-Once recording has nothing to do with the length of the gap of silence between audio tracks! Disc-at-Once recording is a prerequisite for being able to control the length of the gap (down to zero seconds), but it is not the only one.

Also, read this by Jens Fangmeier

Originally posted by kunalwadhwani
Which mode is deemed better & why ? Is my current writer bad ??
Better? Why? Depends on what you want. Think about the 99 MP3 song analogy. Bad? Um, depends. Data backup - NP. Protected CDs - yes.
Originally posted by kunalwadhwani

When I’m copying AudioCD’s / VCD’s / Game CD’s / Data CD’s, which speed do you recommend I read at ?

Max!

As FutureProof said, even Nero does the job of duplicating VCDs.

But, when there are unreadable sectors, Nero stops.

ClonceCD has the advantage here. It skips the unreadable sector & completes the duplication.

Thats why I switched to CloneCD3.

Now, after FutureProof Guide about duplicating VCDs in DAO mode I will move permanently to CCD4.

Originally posted by darshanjog
[B]
But, when there are unreadable sectors, Nero stops.

ClonceCD has the advantage here. It skips the unreadable sector & completes the duplication. [/B]
OK, but there’s no errors on VCD. Create a custom profile that aborts on read error and FES should be “off”. If there are errors then turn off “Abort…” and turn on “Regenerate…” :slight_smile:

@FutureProof

I have no problems duplicating scratched VCDs in CCD.

Only in Nero. But, as CCD works it doesn’t matter much.

Thanx for the info though.

One more thing, what does the Regenerate option do ?

Originally posted by darshanjog
[B]@FutureProof

One more thing, what does the Regenerate option do ? [/B]
this

Thanks FutureProof.

@FutureProof

If i enable Re-generate Data Sectors,

Will the resultant quality of Copy of a VCD be better than the one without Re-generate data sectors enabled.

In simple words, if i want to backup a scratched VCD, will the one with Re-generate Data sectors be better or the one without Re-generate.