Using RENTAL Movies

vbimport

#1

There is a thread out there that has to do with playing RENTAL DVD. The companies that Rent movies us a different format for their movies. It would not be good business cents to not try to protect their DVD’s. One person gets the DVD and then the whole family all of their friends have a copy of it.

This may be a cause that your perticular player/recorder will not work with it.

Just thought that I would put this out incase someone did not know it.

Marty


#2

I’m afraid I don’t agree with you Marty. The same programs that decrypt DVD’s that we purchase also work with rentals. Many of us buy used movies from rental shops. There is a Hastings nearby to me where I shop for them, and the protections are the same. CSS is used on the vast majority of commercially made DVD’s, and only a small number of titles have extra, structural protection along the lines of Sony Arcoss.

Now it may very well be the case that a DVD with extra protection might not work in certain players. This has happened in the past, and caused a fair amount of ruckus. But I haven’t seen discussions at the various video forums around the net concerning this in quite a long time.


#3

Ok I bow to your expertize

Marty


#4

Kerry’s correct.

As far as the actual protection types go there’s no difference between the various versions of DVDs.

Companies may choose however to put different protections or even different variants of the same protection on various versions of the same DVD such as the box set version, bonus disc version, single disc version, DVD & Blu-ray combo version etc.

If the DVD is a properly compliant original though then all players will play the disc. There have been incidents in the past however where the protection producers have pushed beyond these limits and have created problems.

I think that’s pretty much in the past these days though.

[B]Wombler[/B]


#5

[QUOTE=Wombler;2744552]Kerry’s correct.

As far as the actual protection types go there’s no difference between the various versions of DVDs.

Companies may choose however to put different protections or even different variants of the same protection on various versions of the same DVD such as the box set version, bonus disc version, single disc version, DVD & Blu-ray combo version etc.

If the DVD is a properly compliant original though then all players will play the disc. There have been incidents in the past however where the protection producers have pushed beyond these limits and have created problems.

I think that’s pretty much in the past these days though.

[B]Wombler[/B][/QUOTE] The last time I actually rented a DVD was when Blockbuster was still in business and they had protections same as the retail discs.


#6

[QUOTE=alan1476;2744553]The last time I actually rented a DVD was when Blockbuster was still in business and they had protections same as the retail discs.[/QUOTE]

They’re usually the same but it’s not uncommon to have different structural protection variants between different editions.

[B]Wombler[/B]


#7

Are rented discs always in perfect condition? I’d guess, a scratched surface can make a difference, when it comes to playback.

Michael


#8

A fair number of Blu-Ray discs have unique “Rental” variants. You’ll find _RENTAL at the end of their disc label. How they differ from the one you buy, I don’t exactly know. My current Blu-Ray playback method is movie only, no menus. In the past when I was using the menus the special features were removed from the rental discs and when you tried to play them from the menu you got some message on the screen about that item being exclusively on the retail version and to buy it.

Also, there are a few Blu-Ray rental discs that don’t have a lossless audio track when the retail version does. “Suffering” through a rental Blu-Ray with only 640kbit/sec Dolby Digital AC3 audio track instead of lossless TrueHD or DTS-HD MA sure isn’t going to make me run out and buy the movie to watch it again with full lossless audio, so I don’t really understand the motivation behind the lossy only audio track game.


#9

[QUOTE=Stereodude;2744684]

Also, there are a few Blu-Ray rental discs that don’t have a lossless audio track when the retail version does. “Suffering” through a rental Blu-Ray with only 640kbit/sec Dolby Digital AC3 audio track instead of lossless TrueHD or DTS-HD MA sure isn’t going to make me run out and buy the movie to watch it again with full lossless audio, so I don’t really understand the motivation behind the lossy only audio track game.[/QUOTE]

Bean counters at the studios may have realized they don’t have to pay licensing fees for DTS HD audio in their rental releases, and the Dolby fees may be lower. Just a guess though.

And keeping the HD audio out may be a way of discouraging those who rent and rip. Not a particularly onerous deterrent, but along with the missing special features its something less than the full retail edition. Unfortunately for the studios, those who pirate rarely seem interested in those parts that are deliberately left out.


#10

[QUOTE=Stereodude;2744684]In the past when I was using the menus the special features were removed from the rental discs and when you tried to play them from the menu you got some message on the screen about that item being exclusively on the retail version and to buy it.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah I’ve seen that with DVDs as well where the rental is movie only or excludes certain extras.

[B]Wombler[/B]


#11

[QUOTE=Wombler;2744650]They’re usually the same but it’s not uncommon to have different structural protection variants between different editions.

[B]Wombler[/B][/QUOTE]
Well this has not changed, it has got worse, with this new [B]Java Playlist Obfuscation[/B] protection, the rental (Redbox) and the Amazon Retail and the Target Retail , and the Two disc sets all have different protections and different playlists, this is also true in all the regions, some have the Obfuscation in the audio, the ATMOS is different than 5.1 Digital, this last movie that Fab just got out was Hunger Games Mockingjay, and it had over 500 playlists, almost impossible to choose the correct playlist without using tools like BDEdit and Process Monitor, I know for a fact that this is a real horror show for the companies that offer decryption, some have hard coded the correct playlist into the program, others are still trying to introduce it to the ODB, ( onlinedatabase) but either way, with so many regions and 700 or so playlists, most are irrelevant but the programs up until now cannot distinguish the correct ones. If they are hard coded into the programs and all the new movies have this, the programs will soon be Gbs in space for updates, or they have to find out a way for the ODB to select the correct titleset.


#12

It’s funny how you always get batches of these sorts of things.

Over the years I’ve got the impression they test stuff in bulk to see how effective it is then once the protection is routinely beaten and because of licensing fees they reduce it to only the titles they most want to protect.

[B]Wombler[/B]


#13

Please please please, Don’t anyone take offence, I just want to know for my own sake, I stated (original post) that the rental companies used a different format for their moivies and was told nope. but now it seems that they do. do they or don’t they???

Marty


#14

[QUOTE=thor21344;2749812]Please please please, Don’t anyone take offence, I just want to know for my own sake, I stated (original post) that the rental companies used a different format for their moivies and was told nope. but now it seems that they do. do they or don’t they???

Marty[/QUOTE]Yes they do. They use a different playlist. The Movie is exactly the same but the rentals do not have the trailers or special features


#15

Thank You Sir


#16

You’ve got to be aware of the fact that playlist obfuscation is for Blu-ray. And it isn’t commonly used. It may become more common in the future as it is causing some havoc for both AnyDVD HD and Fab.

So the answer is both yes and no. Your original question only mentioned DVD’s by the way.

The AACS encryption is the same general type for retail and rentals, though new versions of AACS are released from time to time. The decryption programs adjust the way they work to match these new versions. Where the playlist sleight of hand comes in is with the Java app found in Blu-ray. Its this Java menu app that looks for AACS encryption being present (and possibly other things), then if it finds it, the app picks out the correct playlist for the disc. If it cannot find it, you may only get a black screen. The latest beta version of AnyDVD HD sidesteps this as it uses the Speedmenu, rather than the original menu (referring to the latest problem disc Mockingjay Pt. 1).

Getting the black screen does not mean that decrypting the disc and ripping it has failed entirely, just that the JAVA app stops playback. You can extract the correct playlist and get a perfectly working movie (sans menus) using something like ClownBD if you know the correct playlist number.

So, when you are examining protections on Blu-ray, you have to consider that it has different parts that can affect playback. The JAVA app isn’t exactly encryption, but can stop the disc from playing. And while the AACS encryption may be the same on both retail and rentals, they can vary the menu app’s actions and look for different playlists.


#17

Kerry, I bow to your knowledge, I will never have the disk makeup knowledge that you do. Yes in my OP I said DVD. Digital-Video-Disk whether it is regular or Blu-Ray it is still a DVD. I said and not properly that rentals had different protection. ok my bad. should have said different schemes or formats. meaning it is harder to backup a rental then it is an original. At this point I am really sorry that I started this thread

Marty


#18

In some cases, when a rental is actually a rental version, there is different protection than on the retail releases. This is true for DVD and Blu-ray formats. There is also an obfuscation of title numbers on some DVDs. Not to mention BD+ on Blu-rays. As Alan said in his post, it is a nightmare to keep up with it all. It has apparently gotten cheaper to have BD+ protection on Blu-rays, it is far more common than in the past on a per-title basis, i.e. more common that different versions of the same title will have different BD+ protection. Different for each retailer in a few cases.


#19

The “rental discs” I’ve seen have only been limited in the bonus features, not the movie’s content or options itself. If the full-movie version has directors’ audio tracts, the rental version will, too, it seems. But there may not be a Making-Of featurette on the rental. Instead, it may be chockful of previews.