Uncopyable?!

vbimport

#1

I have a karaoke disc that I am tryingt to back up. I have had absolutely no luck reading this thing. It is made by SoundChoice.

It has 2 sessions: 1st is audio w/15 tracks and subchannel data, and 2nd is data with some advertisement files.

This disc gives both my Plextor 16/10/40 and my Lite-On LTD-163 a hard time just to recognize it.

I have only been able to actually read the audio in a true audio player (or CD+G player) -- computer drives and DVD players, etc cannot read it.

ClonyXXL says Bad Sectors only. CloneCD will just pad dummy sectors for the entire length of the first session.

The disc has rings separating each of the audio tracks.

Is it possible this is an uncopyable protection?


#2

hmmm, seems that this CD is a CD-Extra. Have you tried Exact Audio Copy or CDRWIN (extract sectors)?
A PlexWriter should be able to read even copy protected CDs (like Key2Audio, etc).


#3

[ul][li]Use latest version of CloneCD[]Place the disc in the tray with Clone running[]allow Clone to close the tray rather than closing it yourself[*]Your Plex will read it[/ul]Mix- Mode only has one session:
[/li]–Track 1: Data track
–Track 2 - 99 : Audio track

CD-Extra have 2 Session
–Session 1 : Audio track
–Session 2 : Data track


#4

I tried your suggestion by letting Clone close the drive but it makes no difference.

When I attempt to read in the disc this is what happens:

I 11:24:24 PM CloneCD Version 4.0.0.1 started!
I 11:24:24 PM ElbyCDIO Driver 4.0.0.0
I 11:24:24 PM ElbyCDIO.dll 4.0.0.0
I 11:24:24 PM CCDDriver.dll 4.0.0.0
I 11:24:24 PM ElbyECC.dll 4.0.0.0
I 11:24:24 PM Searching for SCSI/ATAPI devices…
I 11:24:24 PM Device Scan found 1 CD-ROMs and 1 CD-Writers!
I 11:25:48 PM Starting copy from PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1610A to V:\IMAGE.CCD
I 11:25:48 PM Read Speed for Data Tracks: Maximum
I 11:25:48 PM Read Speed for Audio Tracks: 8x
I 11:25:48 PM Read SubChannel Data from Data Tracks: No
I 11:25:48 PM Read SubChannel Data from Audio Tracks: Yes
I 11:25:48 PM Fast Error Skip: Yes
I 11:25:48 PM Don’t report read errors: No
I 11:25:48 PM Intelligent Bad Sector Scanner: Yes
I 11:25:49 PM CD contains CD-Text: No
I 11:25:49 PM Reading Track 1… (Blocks 0-10282)
W 11:25:53 PM Failed to read Sector 0
W 11:25:53 PM Failed to read Sector 1
W 11:25:54 PM Failed to read Sector 2
W 11:25:55 PM Failed to read Sector 3
I 11:25:56 PM Fast Error Skip has been enabled automatically!
I 11:25:56 PM Scanning bad sectors…
W 11:25:57 PM Writing Dummy Sectors 4 to 104
I 11:25:57 PM Scanning bad sectors…
W 11:25:58 PM Writing Dummy Sectors 105 to 205
I 11:25:59 PM Scanning bad sectors…
W 11:26:00 PM Writing Dummy Sectors 206 to 306
I 11:26:01 PM Scanning bad sectors…
W 11:26:02 PM Writing Dummy Sectors 307 to 407
I 11:26:03 PM Scanning bad sectors…
W 11:26:04 PM Writing Dummy Sectors 408 to 508
I 11:26:04 PM Scanning bad sectors…
W 11:26:05 PM Writing Dummy Sectors 509 to 609
I 11:26:06 PM Scanning bad sectors…
W 11:26:07 PM Writing Dummy Sectors 610 to 710
I 11:26:08 PM Scanning bad sectors…
W 11:26:09 PM Writing Dummy Sectors 711 to 811
I 11:26:09 PM Scanning bad sectors…
W 11:26:10 PM Writing Dummy Sectors 812 to 912
I 11:26:11 PM Scanning bad sectors…
W 11:26:12 PM Writing Dummy Sectors 913 to 1013
I 11:26:13 PM Scanning bad sectors…
W 11:26:14 PM Writing Dummy Sectors 1014 to 1114
I 11:26:14 PM Scanning bad sectors…

And this continues for the length of the disc – all sectors come back bad.

I have tried most of the different profiles, but the one I tried here was the Multimedia Audio CD.

CDRWin also cannot read in the tracks even sector by sector – it gets the same errors all the way through.

Any other ideas?


#5

I 11:25:48 PM Fast Error Skip: Yes
I 11:25:48 PM Intelligent Bad Sector Scanner: Yes
Turn these off or better, create a Karaoke profile (right click/new) without any error features turned on. Is the disc damaged?


#6

Ok, created a Karaoke profile with error handling turned off and Sector Skip turned off. Unfortunately it still will not read.

No, the disc is not damaged – as I said it can be played by any older CD audio player or CD+G player. These bad sectors are evidently some form of protection. The manufacturer is SoundChoice - perhaps they have some different protection schemes.

Here is the log excerpt:

I 12:16:32 AM Starting copy from PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1610A to V:\IMAGE.CCD
I 12:16:32 AM Read Speed for Data Tracks: Maximum
I 12:16:32 AM Read Speed for Audio Tracks: 8x
I 12:16:32 AM Read SubChannel Data from Data Tracks: Yes
I 12:16:32 AM Read SubChannel Data from Audio Tracks: Yes
I 12:16:32 AM Fast Error Skip: No
I 12:16:32 AM Don’t report read errors: No
I 12:16:32 AM Intelligent Bad Sector Scanner: No
I 12:16:33 AM CD contains CD-Text: No
I 12:16:36 AM Reading Track 1… (Blocks 0-10282)
W 12:16:39 AM Failed to read Sector 0
W 12:16:40 AM Failed to read Sector 1
W 12:16:41 AM Failed to read Sector 2
W 12:16:42 AM Failed to read Sector 3
W 12:16:42 AM Failed to read Sector 4
W 12:16:43 AM Failed to read Sector 5
W 12:16:44 AM Failed to read Sector 6
W 12:16:45 AM Failed to read Sector 7
W 12:16:46 AM Failed to read Sector 8
W 12:16:46 AM Failed to read Sector 9
W 12:16:47 AM Failed to read Sector 10
W 12:16:48 AM Failed to read Sector 11
W 12:16:49 AM Failed to read Sector 12
W 12:16:50 AM Failed to read Sector 13
W 12:16:51 AM Failed to read Sector 14
W 12:16:51 AM Failed to read Sector 15
W 12:16:52 AM Failed to read Sector 16
W 12:16:53 AM PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1610A is not compatible with CloneCD!


#7

I’m not the expert on this, I think it may have an audio prot but the errors are a mystery.

If you enable FES on PSX games or Tages protected games (unnecessarily), there will be these phantom errors.


#8

So is there any suggestion on what to try next knowing that I keep getting bad sector errors?

I read somewhere that SoundChoice (who makes the disc) uses something called MediaCloq – I wonder if this is an example of that protection.


#9

This explains how to back up a cd protected with MediaCloq

http://cdprot.cjb.net/


#10

Ok, I put the stickers on and true now CloneCD only identifies one session instead of 2.

But still, every sector comes up as a bad sector whether it’s with CloneCD or CDRWin or anything.

What the heck is causing this?


#11

Instead using plex to read, maybe ty your CD-ROM :eek: <-- CD Laser
DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA


#12

I have tried Lite-On LTD-163 as well, no change. Sectors always show as bad.


#13

Originally posted by softwareguy
Instead using plex to read, maybe ty your CD-ROM :eek: <-- CD Laser
DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA

:confused: What are you trying to say?


#14

I have been running my own karaoke’s for years and i had great trouble trying to back up my discs.

Karake disks are not like your normal audio cd’s. It is the graphic part that is the hardest to copy. The first thing you need is a reader and or writer that likes Karaoke discs. Alot do not.
Very few cd roms read Karaoke cd’s. I have not yet found one that does.
I have to use my writer to READ and write the karaoke disks.
Tested models are sony CRX120/140/160 series.
Most Yamaha writers plus most lite-on writers will.

Next is the sofware you need. CDR win is excellent software (shouldn’t be saying that on a clone cd forum).

However, clone cd will do it.

In clone cd (versions 3) when you insert the disk go to load cd and there is a Karaoke option. Highlight this and it will tick the following boxes;
READ SUB CHANNEL DATA
ABORT ON READ ERROR

It is the READ SUB CHANNEL DATA that will copy the words. If you don’t tick this you will just get the audio (as I found out).

I personally don’t tick the abort on read error as I have yet to find a Karaoke disc with protection or read errors ( i own over 300) and the only errors it shows is if the disk is scratched and all that will cause is a slight blip on the cd.

When writing the disk no need to tick any boxes.

Older Karaoke machines are very sensitive to fast read / write speeds. On my old phillips cdi karaoke player I cannot read faster than 12 speed and write at maximum 4 speed - if I do the words all break up.

On the newer machine (made within the last 2 years) I can read at maximum and write at 12 with no problems.

Clone 4 will also copy Karaoke disks. You need though to tick READ SUB CHANNEL DATA. No other settings need to be ticked.

A list of readers / writers are as follows that will read and write KARAOKE disks;

CDROM Recorders (SCSI)

Creative CDR4210
Grundig CDR100IPW
Hewlett Packard 4020
Hewlett Packard 6020
Hewlett Packard M820e
Hightech CD-R2000
JVC XR-W2010/2012
JVC XR-W2020/2022/2626
JVC XR-2042
Kodak PCD200
Kodak PCD225
Kodak PCD600
Matsushita CW-7501
Matsushita CW-7502
Matsushita CW-7503
Memorex CDW-620
Mitsubishi CDW226
Mitsumi CR-2401TS
Olympus CDS615E
Olympus CDS620E
Philips CDD522
Philips CDD2000
Philips CDD2600
Philips OmniWriter
Pinnacle RCD5020
Pinnacle RCD5040
Pinnacle RCD4X4
Pioneer DW-S114X
Plasmon CDR4220
Plasmon CDR4240
Plasmon 480
Plextor PX-R24CS
Plextor PX-R412C
Plextor PX-R820T
Plextor PX-W4220T
Plextor PX-W8220T
Ricoh RO-1420C
Ricoh 6200S/6201S
Ricoh 7040S
Ricoh 7060S
Ricoh 8040S
Ricoh 7080S
Ricoh 9060S
Smart & Friendly 2001
Smart & Friendly 2004
Smart & Friendly 2006PLUS
Smart & Friendly 4000
Smart & Friendly 4006
Smart & Friendly 4012
Smart & Friendly CD-RW 226
Smart & Friendly CD-R8020
Sony CDU920S
Sony CDU924S
Sony CDU948S
Teac CD-R50S
Teac CD-R55S
Teac CD-R56S
Teac CD-R58S
Traxdata CDRW2260 PRO
Traxdata CDRW4260 PRO
Traxdata CDR4120 PRO
Wearnes CDR-432
Wearnes CDR-632
Yamaha CDR100
Yamaha CDR102
Yamaha CDR200
Yamaha CDR400
Yamaha CRW2260
Yamaha CRW4260
Yamaha CRW2216S
Yamaha CRW4416S
Yamaha CRW6416S
Yamaha CRW8424S

CDROM Recorders (IDE / ATAPI)
Acer CRW6206A
Creative Labs 2024 / 4224 / 4424 / 4800E / 8432E / 8433E
Hewlett Packard 7100 / 7200
Hewlett Packard 7500 / 8100 / 8200 / 9100 / 9200
Hewlett Packard 8250
JVC XR-W2080 / XR-W2082
JVC XR-W4080 / XR-W4082
JVC XR-RW4224 / XR-RW4424
LG/Goldstar CED-8041B / 8042B / 8080B / 8083B
Matsushita CW-7582
Memorex CRW-1622
Memorex CDRW-2216
Memorex CD-RW2224 / CD-RW4224
Memorex CDRW-4420
Mitsumi CR-4801TE / CR-4802TE / CR-4804TE
Philips CDD3610 / CDD3801 / CDD4201 / CDD4401 / CDD4801
Ricoh 6200A / 7040A / 7060A / 9060A
Smart & Friendly CD-RW2224
Sony CRX100E / CRX110E / CRX120E / CRX140E
Teac CD-W54E
Traxdata CDRW2260 PLUS
Wearnes CDRW-622
Yamaha CDR401 / CRW4001 / CRW4261 / CRW2216E / CRW4416E / CRW8424E

CDROM Readers (SCSI)
Matsushita CR-504
Matsushita CR-505
Matsushita CR-506
Matsushita CR-507
Matsushita CR-508
Matsushita CR-606
Matsushita CR-8004
Matsushita CR-8012
NEC MultiSpin 3X
NEC MultiSpin 4X
NEC MultiSpin 6X
NEC MultiSpin 8X
NEC MultiSpin 16X
NEC MultiSpin 24X
NEC MultiSpin 32X
NEC MultiSpin 40X
Pioneer DR-U10X
Pioneer DR-U12X
Pioneer DR-U24X
Pioneer DR-U03S
Pioneer DR-U06S
Pioneer DVD-303S
Plextor 4Plex
Plextor 4Plex Plus
Plextor 6Plex
Plextor 8Plex
Plextor 12Plex
Plextor 12/20Plex
Plextor 14/32Plex
Plextor 17/40Plex
Sony CDU-55S
Sony CDU-76S
Sony CDU-415
Sony CDU-625
Teac CD-56S
Teac CD-516S
Teac CD-532S
Toshiba 3401
Toshiba 3501
Toshiba 3601
Toshiba 3701
Toshiba 3801
Toshiba 4100
Toshiba 4101
Toshiba 5201
Toshiba 5301
Toshiba 5401
Toshiba 5601
Toshiba 5701
Toshiba 5801
Toshiba 6201
Toshiba 6401

If your reader or writer is not listed above, to check whether it reads or writes Karaoke disks go into Clone CD and click on the first option READ TO IMAGE FILE.
Select device you are reading and / or writing Karaoke disks with and it should have the following option
Supports writing of CD+G RAW-DAO: Yes
If your writer has this but not your reader then you will have to read and write with your writer.

If all your devices says;
Supports writing of CD+G RAW-DAO: No
then i’m afraid you will not be able to copy karaoke disks.

You need a new writer.


#15

Originally posted by Upp3rd0G
What are you trying to say?

Data?


#16

Oh never mind about that… LOL :smiley:


#17

@ TIMMY4:
Thanks for the lesson, but that is common knowledge. This isn’t a karaoke copying forum, it’s a CloneCD forum and what we’re talking about is protected discs. I have a good setup for backing up CD+G so I’m all set.

@ Everyone else:

Perhaps I’m not getting the point across here. This disc is reporting BAD SECTORS no matter what program tries to read it. The bad sectors are on the 1st session, the audio session.

So the question is, how do you defeat this problem, if it is possible at all?


#18

i believe someone said mediacloq was on some karaoke discs? check the audio forum for more info