Trackmarkings on demo CD

Hi,

I need software for burning an audio CD that can allow us to put track markings at certain points within whole “tracks”. We’ll be importing them as WAVs. Does anyone know of a cd burning package that can do this (it’s nero we’ve got now)?

We’re a band who’s having our demo mixed right now. We play sets of tunes together and on albums there is one track per set of tunes. For the demo though, we want a separate track for each tune. Can anyone help please?

Gareth

Edit:

Please refrain from crossposting, deleted the two oher threads with the same question.

Respect CD Freaks by respecting our rules.

Nero

Thanks Andrareed,

Is it only the latest version of Nero?

We’ve got Version 5.5.18.

If it’s on that one, we can’t see it. Where is the facility to do it? How is it done?

One way we’ve thought of is to create separate tracks on the hard disk recorder and to burn separate tracks using Nero with zero length gaps. However, that would just be a work-around which risks losing continuity.

What the engineer is asking for is to be able to record as one piece (consisting of more than one tune) and to specify the times of the track markings (thus enabling those listening to the demo to browse it all easily). He’s used to being able to do on the professional mastering equipment he normally works with but so far, we’re failing to come up with the goods!

Regards,
Gareth

Originally posted by WelshGareth

What the engineer is asking for is to be able to record as one piece (consisting of more than one tune) and to specify the times of the track markings (thus enabling those listening to the demo to browse it all easily).

Something professional?
Forget buggy and limited Nero.

One way we’ve thought of is to create separate tracks on the hard disk recorder and to burn separate tracks using Nero with zero length gaps. However, that would just be a work-around which risks losing continuity.

There’s no problem with continuity if you use a professional burning program like Feurio! (and choose “Do not insert pauses between tracks”)

In Nero and most other limited burning programs, the tracks must be multiple of 588 samples (1 sector). Feurio doesn’t have that limitation.

Anyway, it’s much faster and easier to split the tracks with a non destructive editor like the one in Feurio!

Drop the WAV in the project. Enter “Track Editor”.
Press “Split Tracks (linked)” in the places you want.
Quit Track Editor and press “Burn”.
There you have it.

What you hear in the Track Editor or Wave Player is exactly what you’ll have in the disc.

No need to worry about pauses or DAO/TAO modes.
Feurio only burns in the only correct mode for audio CDs (DAO).

Check if your drive is supported:
http://www.feurio.com/English/cd_writer.shtml

Thanks minix, that looks like just what we need.

In the absence of another option last night, our engineer used Nero’s track splitter for the first couple of reference CDs but it does have the following disadvantages:

  1. you’ve can’t choose precisely where to put the split (the samples/sector issue);
  2. the sound file itself has to be split (leaving the potential for compromised continuity).
  3. you can’t test the placing of the split by ear without playing the separated files using another program;

From what I can read on the Feurio website, the program seems to address all these issues. I’ll forward a link to this thread to our engineer in the hope his burner is supported.

In defence of Nero, it “does what it says on the box”. I suspect for the vast majority of amateur users, detailed issues such as these just don’t matter. For our purposes though, in getting the master for our demo as we need it, it looks like Feurio will be more up to the task. I’ll report back when the job is done how we did it and how well it worked.

Thanks again,

Gareth

PS Apology to the moderators for the “crossposting” issue.

Originally posted by WelshGareth
1. you’ve can’t choose precisely where to put the split (the samples/sector issue);

But that’s OK.
You can’t avoid that.
An audio track must have an integer number of sector.
You can’t have a track with 587 o 589 samples exactly.
Your tracks must be 588*N samples long.

This is how a CD-DA is.
In Feurio you set the split point, but it’s automatically changed to the next sector boundary. It’s impossible to do otherwise.

This is not a problem usually.
588 samples (1 sector) is only 13 miliseconds, so it’s impossible to distinguish where the track actually started. You can’t notice the difference between 3 sectors before or 3 sectors later.

  1. the sound file itself has to be split (leaving the potential for compromised continuity).

The “splitter” in Nero works as it should, and it splits in the sector boundaries.
There’s no problem with continuity, except the silly detail that you have to remember to set the pauses to zero after splitting.

Then you also have to remember to burn in DAO mode.
2 silly details that you don’t have to remember in Feurio!

Some versions of Nero also have bugs when you save the compilation.
You make all the work, and when you’re going to open the compilation later, you find it’s corrupted.

  1. you can’t test the placing of the split by ear without playing the separated files using another program;

The Wave Player in Feurio will play the disc exactly how it will sound in a regular player. You don’t need to actually burn the disc.

In defence of Nero, it “does what it says on the box”.

Yes, if it wasn’t for the bugs it has…
It even has options that don’t work and are not documented like “Remove silence at the end of cda tracks”…

I suspect for the vast majority of amateur users, detailed issues such as these just don’t matter. For our purposes though, in getting the master for our demo as we need it, it looks like Feurio will be more up to the task. I’ll report back when the job is done how we did it and how well it worked.

In this case, you can use the Nero splitter and will make the same job as Feurio.
If you had splitted the WAV in several files, then Nero would fail to burn properly (it deletes the last samples of the tracks).

The last time I checked Feurio, more than one year ago, its wav editor didn’t allow to zoom vertically. So you couldn’t see if there was some noise that would not be audible when the process is done (because of the computer noise for example), but that would be cut if the track marker is set too late.

That’s why I explained how to do it with EAC : http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=4425

It must be more complicated (I didn’t actually tried to do it with Feurio), but EAC it is the only one that you can get for free and that allows you to look at the lowest noise level in order to accurately position your tracks.

By the way, because of offsets (different CD players, or CD ROM drives don’t see the tracks at the exact same place), it is advised to leave about 1000 samples of silence before the track 1 begings (i.e. inserting 1000 samples of silence at the beginning of track 1). You can put more silence if it doesn’t hurt the playback experience, it depends on the kind of music.
For the other tracks, the starting points should be between 0 and 1000 samples before the actual start of the audio signal.
For what it’s worth, a small majority of drives have a read offset correction of about +600 samples, and a write offset near zero.
Thus it is likely that the playback starts actually about 600 samples before the points you set.

If the playback starts just after the track mark, even several audio samples missing might be audible.
These differences are inaudible as long as the playback starts before the audio. But since you are making masters, I thought that these recommendations might help you.