Toshiba XD-E500: beats Blu-ray, HD DVD and Oppo?

vbimport

#1

Toshiba released its new XDE player (Extended Detail) this month named Toshiba XD-E500 retails for $149.

The XDE can output 24fps 1080p video; it’s the only upconverting DVD player on the market with 24fps capability.

According to user reviews at Amazon, this unit details video better than Blu-ray, HD DVD and Oppo’s Reon chipsets players for Standard Def and it looks very close to High Def.

Anyone here owns this unit and how’s your experience?


#2

From the amazon user review looks promising but I would wait for professional review.


#3

Early reports are that this player is mostly marketing hype. It uses mostly edge enhancement, and is a poor de-interlacer. Even the cheapest Oppo will out-perform it. It will probably beat most other upscaling DVD players, and will look good to many people who haven’t seen quality upscaling before. But particularly on larger screens, the excessive edge enhancement will look bad. The so-called 24fps output is nothing but standard pull-down.

So it’ll be a decent upgrade for folks with smaller screens, but no competition for Oppo image quality.


#4

Viva la HTPC =)
//Danne


#5

Yo-

Have not seen [I]ANY[/I] upconverter that surpasses the Toshiba XA2 standard definition video renditions -eh!!


#6

CNet review gives 3 stars out 5.

[B]The good:[/B]
Solid DVD playback performance with extended definition (XDE) disabled; can play DivX, MP3, and WMA files burned on CDs and DVDs; can output DVD in 24 frames per second.

[B]The bad:[/B]
Expensive for a DVD player; XDE picture controls are best left off for the most-accurate picture; lacks features such as SACD playback and a USB port found on competing Oppo models; poor aspect ratio control on nonanamorphic DVDs.

[B]The bottom line:[/B]
The Toshiba XD-E500’s XDE picture enhancements don’t live up to the hype. While it’s a solid upscaling DVD player, its high price makes it a hard sell.


#7

it wont beat bluray or hddvd…you cant re-create details in the picture that simply isnt there…i’m sure it can look better than other dvd players…but its impossible to make it look like a bluray…all hype to sell dvd players i guess lol


#8

[QUOTE=zevia;2121488]CNet review gives 3 stars out 5.

[B]The good:[/B]
Solid DVD playback performance with extended definition (XDE) disabled; can play DivX, MP3, and WMA files burned on CDs and DVDs; can output DVD in 24 frames per second.

[B]The bad:[/B]
Expensive for a DVD player; XDE picture controls are best left off for the most-accurate picture; lacks features such as SACD playback and a USB port found on competing Oppo models; poor aspect ratio control on nonanamorphic DVDs.

[B]The bottom line:[/B]
The Toshiba XD-E500’s XDE picture enhancements don’t live up to the hype. While it’s a solid upscaling DVD player, its high price makes it a hard sell.

Yes, early reports are that the VDE enhancement can look pretty bad on a large screen, since it’s largely just EE and boosted HF levels. Supposedly it also fails many common de-interlacing tests. The money would be far better spent on a Oppo 980 with actual high quality de-interlacing and scaling.

But this player is aimed at folks who have never seen upscaling on an Oppo.


#9

I had a sample of that player about a year ago. It is, as many of the reviews stated, a very poor deinterlacer. Even many of the mass-market Blu-Ray players do a better job of deinterlacing standard-definition video-sourced DVDs than this Toshiba did. Heck, I got better deinterlacing results from both of my older progressive-scan DVD players (when they’re connected via the component video outs, the only way to get progressive-scan output as the standard video outs support only interlaced output) than from the XD-E500.

To be specific, my sample of the XD-E500 actually dropped half the fields and upscaled the rest. Thus, I ended up with an effective 720x240p30 video with fully half the picture missing entirely. (I noticed this in the small text that’s been broken almost to the point of complete illegibility.)

The XD-E500 has since been replaced in my A/V system by a higher-end Sony Blu-Ray player (a BDP-S550, to be exact, one of the last moderately-priced Sony Blu-Ray players made in Japan; its successor models are now made in Malaysia). I just happened to get a “good” copy of this Sony Blu-Ray player since some samples of this model (and most samples of Sony’s other Blu-Ray players) perform the deinterlacing of 1080i-encoded Blu-Ray and AVCHD discs incorrectly. (And the PS3 game console - one of the “better” Blu-Ray players out there - simply passes the output from 1080i-encoded discs as interlaced, leaving the job of deinterlacing entirely to the HDTV set.) The one feature that Sony’s Blu-Ray players (and those of many other brands) really need is the automatic output switching between 1080i60 and 1080p24: On a Panasonic Blu-Ray player which supports this feature (or a player from certain other brands with a similar feature), you set the output resolution to 1080i and the 24p mode to AUTO, and the player will automatically determine the best mode for a particular Blu-Ray disc. With the Sonys (and many other players), one must manually make the switch using the players’ on-screen menu system since selecting 1080i as the output on those players would disable 24p output (or conversely, the output resolution must be set to AUTO or 1080p in order to enable 24p output).


#10

[QUOTE=RJL65;2488035]
{snip}
To be specific, my sample of the XD-E500 actually dropped half the fields and upscaled the rest. Thus, I ended up with an effective 720x240p30 video with fully half the picture missing entirely. (I noticed this in the small text that’s been broken almost to the point of complete illegibility.)

{snip}

The one feature that Sony’s Blu-Ray players (and those of many other brands) really need is the automatic output switching between 1080i60 and 1080p24: On a Panasonic Blu-Ray player which supports this feature (or a player from certain other brands with a similar feature), you set the output resolution to 1080i and the 24p mode to AUTO, and the player will automatically determine the best mode for a particular Blu-Ray disc. With the Sonys (and many other players), one must manually make the switch using the players’ on-screen menu system since selecting 1080i as the output on those players would disable 24p output (or conversely, the output resolution must be set to AUTO or 1080p in order to enable 24p output).[/QUOTE]

I forgot to mention that the XD-E500 drops every other field and passes through (but does not upscale) what remains. What’s worse, it performs this incorrect deinterlacing before the upconversion, resulting in the deinterlacing flaws becoming painfully obvious. The larger the screen and the higher the screen resolution, the worse it looks. This is how I got this blurry, flickering mess from video-sourced DVDs.

The so-called “24p” mode on the XD-E500 is, as others have stated, largely a simple 2-3 pulldown. However, unlike most other upconverting DVD players which resample the frame rate of 24p-encoded DVDs to 30 fps before outputting to the TV set (those other upconverting DVD players actually perform a 2-3 pulldown removal to get 24 fps but then interpolate that to 30 fps since their progressive-scan output is permanently fixed at 30 fps), the XD-E500 could output the result as a 24 fps stream. But I never tried this feature since I had only a 60 Hz HDTV set when I had the player (I still have the very same set for the present but might upgrade to a 120 Hz set in the near future).

Also, that automatic-24p-switching is the default mode on the PS3. It cannot deinterlace 1080i material at all.


#11

Beats Oppo, not likely.

:cool::cool:


#12

Any decent AVR will most likely beat the Oppo…
//Danne


#13

How does an AVR fit into the equation when your comparing blu-ray players?

The Oppo is powered by the ABT2010 scaler.

Most high end scalers in AVR’s are power by either Anchor Bay chip ABT2010 processors or IDT Reon-VX HQV video processors. Any thing else will not compare.

So you should be debating ABT2010 processors vs IDT Reon-VX HQV video processors.

:cool::cool:


#14

The XD-E500 isn’t a BD-player…
//Danne


#15

Toshiba XD E500 is a DvD Player. :o:o

Toshiba BDX2000 is a Blu-ray Player.

[B]Still doesn’t answer the question why you think any decent AVR will out scale the Oppo?[/B]

There really has not been any tests that have put scalers head to head.

I found this in the AVS forums, Can’t really call it an official test but it’s the results that he got from one aspect.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16516623#post16516623

Denon 3800 (Realta) Vs Oppo BDP83 (ABT VRS)

I posted this in the 3800 owner’s thread but thought some of you would like to see the Denon 3800 (Realta) and the Oppo BDP83 (ABT VRS) in a video shootout. Any Marantz 8002 owners have the Oppo and can confirm what I’m seeing?

Ok guys. I just formally did tests with markups and put together a table of the cadence tests and whatever else the Denon had trouble with:

There are 2 methods of doing the cadence tests on the S&M disc: racecar and wedges. Racecar is identical to the HQV DVD benchmark sequence. Wedges shows 2 wedges on the screen, one vertical to the left and one horizontal to the right. Each wedge has straight lines like pinstripes running up and down the length of the wedge. Anytime the Denon failed the wedge pattern, there was noticeable strobing in the interior of the right wedge. The Oppo had no trouble with the wedges.

I’d also like to correct myself concerning the results of the Mixed Film and Video Vertical and Horizontal scrolls. Apparently, there is a hidden SD version of this test and that was what I was watching on the Oppo and comparing against the HD version on the Denon. In fact, the Oppo and the Denon performed equally with the exception of the Denon having a hiccup in the beginning of the horizontal scroll during the SD version of the test. Another notch goes to Oppo.

Although I’m running 720p out to a 720p projector, I do not think my results should be discounted if for no other reason than the Oppo passed all the tests that the Denon failed. On top of that, fellow 720p owners will remember that the Denon never showed all the 720p specific patterns from the DVE: HD Basics disc whereas my PS3 and now the Oppo have absolutely no problems with the patterns. My ultimate hope is that someone here can repeat my tests on their Denon/Oppo and confirm my results, even for 1080p.

:cool::cool:



#16

As implemented in the Oppo and DVDO-Edge, the ABT 2010 meets or exceeds performance for de-interlacing and scaling from any other known video processors. It makes no difference whether the processor is in an AVR, player or stand-alone VP unit. It’s the implementation that makes it better or worse.

There are no known AVRs (or players) in the sub-$3000 class that meet (much less exceed) the performance of the Oppo for de-interlacing and scaling DVD video, regardless of the chipset used. This has been demonstrated many times in a wide range of comparisons. Roughly 1/2 the time, the Realta/Reon processors meet the ABT performance level for noise reduction and scaling but fail de-interlacing tests. Even in those AVRs that use the ABT 2010, implementation is cheaper and has fewer features than the Oppo and DVDO-Edge. Performance can be similar, but not better.

Bottom line is that the existing Reon/Realta chipsets are yesterday’s technology and the ABT 2010 is the one to beat. Faroudja chips are not even in the running at this stage. Newer offerings in VP chips are on the horizon, but performance is still an unknown.

The only compelling reason to have ANY video processing in an AVR is for sources other than DVD/BD discs, and that is arguable since all displays have similar technology.


#17

Oppo [B]DVD-player[/B] uses faroudja and you can find better ones in AVRs nowdays, seems kinda pointless to get an Oppo BD-player as BD already is 1080p and DVDs scale good enough with Reon HQV/HTPCs.
//Danne


#18

[QUOTE=DiiZzY;2488643]Oppo [B]DVD-player[/B] uses faroudja and you can find better ones in AVRs nowdays, seems kinda pointless to get an Oppo BD-player as BD already is 1080p and DVDs scale good enough with Reon HQV/HTPCs.
//Danne[/QUOTE]

Well, now there you go talking nonsense. Oppo hasn’t made a Faroudja based player since the 981 and 971. The 980 is MTK based, the 983 is ABT 2010. The BDP-83 is ABT 2010.

Reon/HQV chipsets routinely fail de-interlacing tests, as has already been posted. They also lack any sort of mosquito noise reduction, which is very relevant to MPEG-2 video scaling. The Reon/HQV chipsets are in fact originally designed for broadcast video scaling, not DVD-Video, and not really designed for de-interlacing at all. Whether that’s “good enough” is up to the buyer.

Many people using BD players are watching as much if not more DVD than BD.