There could be good case for a class action suit against LiteON for misrepresentation

vbimport

#1

It seems that everyone is massively complaining about the LiteON 811S being a poor drive and not burning 1 disc with quality that is up to specs no matter what firmware. It’s obvious that LiteON apparently has phased out the 811S and no longer plans on releasing new firmware (I know this from a reliable source). They will focus on their 812S drives.

they always advertised the 811S as being an 8x DVD+/-RW which constitutes misrepresentation of a product.

Their RMA and trouble reporting on their web site returns a 404 error and apparently never works, their support never answers e-mail or phone, people are complaining about terrible kprobe scans despite using top quality media…and last but not least, the complaints about 8x burning in DVD-R which is not possible. LiteOn does not have any plans on supporting 8x -R on the 811S.

The 811S is alleged to be flawed and a mistake by LiteON that they realised there is no hope for, so now they are using Sony technology for new drives.

What about the people who were cheated into buying the 811S and who cannot get half decent results because of the fact those so-called high-tech engineers (my arse) didn’t even test the 811S before releasing it on the market, and only now tech people are noticing many hardware flaws.

So I think here there is good reason to believe there should be a massive class action suit and ALL users who purchased the 811S should be entitled to either get their money back or a FREE exchange to a 812S, which represents a drive they should have released instead of the 811S.

Also from good sources of mine, LiteON will release 16x DVD writers !

Already the 411S are phased out and stores will mostly be able to order 811S from their distributors. The same faith will happen to the 811S, as it will be replaced with 812S.

This is outrageous and unacceptable business practice and alleged fraudulent practices should be exposed.

I personally bought the 811S and didn’t have much time to run all kinds of test with it ! However if I encounter the same problems people are experiencing I will write a letter tot he president of LiteON to voice my discontent and DEMAND my money back.

I feel that anybody who has purchased the 811S and feels cheated, should you not be able to return to the store, flood LiteON with letters and get justice.

To me this is disloyal and borderline fraud. What is supposedly labeled an 8x DVD +R/-R drive only writes 8x DVD+R and 4x DVD-R… Which leads me to believe that the 811S was intended to be a 4x writer that they re-vamped…dishonest little scheme that should be exposed to the general public and to the media (hey I made a great pun - :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: )

I will personally contact LiteON and try to get some information concerning this issue.

The SOH-812S is initially released in Japan and will gradually be available with time with an estimated retail price of $135 US.
The 812S can handle 8x -R no problem and has excellent writing strategy (different laser).

The 811S is allegedly flawed and anybody here who thinks LiteON will support 8x -R you are dead wrong, 811S will be left in the cold, mark my words.

One thing I DID notice with my 811S is the EXCELLENT quality of written 48X CD-Rs… I had a LiteON LTR-48x CD-Writer before and writing the SAME 48x media with the 811S produces EXCELLENT results… Extremely low C1 and no C2s… The worst I’ve had on an 80min 48x disc was 1.5 C1s pretty amazing stuff… It’s a bloody shame they haven’t perfected their drives for what it was intended to be… A DVD Writer…

If you feel cheated by LiteON you should act right now, there is enough evidence to build a solid case against LiteON.


#2

I don’t know where that came from because the 411S/811S are great burners.

Most problems are caused by using crappy media.

The one step they did wrong was tell Norcent that the drive would support 8x -R so I do agree that part is not acceptable.

You are looking at a forum where, for the most part, people come for help. Have a look at any of the other hardware forums and you will see troubles as well. That is why the forums are here. LiteOn does not have more or less issues overall when compared to other drives.
LiteOn is not the only company that some people have issues with. That unfortunately is the nature of PC hardware.

I have no issues with my 811S, actually I love it. It has burned great discs for me both +R/+RW and -R/RW with low errors and I know that I am not the only one.


#3

Originally posted by Rimmer66
[B]It seems that everyone is massively complaining about the LiteON 811S being a poor drive and not burning 1 disc with quality that is up to specs no matter what firmware. It’s obvious that LiteON apparently has phased out the 811S and no longer plans on releasing new firmware (I know this from a reliable source). They will focus on their 812S drives.

they always advertised the 811S as being an 8x DVD+/-RW which constitutes misrepresentation of a product.

If you feel cheated by LiteON you should act right now, there is enough evidence to build a solid case against LiteON. [/B]

I had to check my watch for the current date.
It’s still another month away. :stuck_out_tongue:

I doubt that liteon will ever ditch support of any of their drives before the product lifecycle is over, approx 1.5yrs i suspect.
I’d like to know some details of this “Reliable Source”. I don’t suppose this person is a court jester? Please PM me, I’d like to discuss it with the admins/etc.

The details on the box I bought said the following “8/4 DVD+R/RW, 4/2 DVD-R/RW”, but that was insignificant as i checked out the specs of the burner carefully before I bought it.
I’d have no respect at all for someone which didn’t at least know the writing speeds of the product they were buying, or read a few reviews to get a gist for reliability of the company/products. As far as I’m concerned, if you’ve jumped onto the bandwagon and bought a product you knew nothing about, it’s your own damn problem. The fact that you didn’t read the box either, before handing over the cash makes me suspect you don’t have a clue.

Of course a company focusses on it’s new products. They doesn’t mean they are ditching support for current products.

I never saw Liteon advertise the LDW811 as an 8x DVD-R, only as an 8x writer, which is not technically incorrect.

If you are having issues with your burner at 8x, I think maybe you should stop being a cheapskate and buy some decent 8X rated media.

Feel free to file a class action. You will likely be laughed out of the courtroom, in addition to this forum. :iagree:

  • Lister reincarnate.

I am not affiliated with liteon, or someone which suffers from brand loyalty. However, liteon have just offered the best bang for the buck for most of their drives in the last 2 years.


#4

Oh please don’t give me none of that “it’s the media” bullshit!
I’ve heard this bloody excuse many times and getting sick of it.

Look around the forum you’ll see MANY people having problems, and they are using the best media. Those people who went with other burners, with same good media, no problem.

Also I NEVER use cheap media I always use top quality media, so find me another bloody excuse! You will never admit that LiteON uses poor components, that their drive is POORLY built, cheap, head gets disaligned pretty easily, noisy, slow, and poor writing strategy!

How come a zebra person comes along and manages to release mods and by magic the drive has better scores ? Sounds to me that Zebra is doing what LiteON should have done from the start, and those mother******* claim to be elite engineers, what a bunch of clueless tossers.

There is not ONE person I know with this crap of a drive that has managed to burn a DVD Video without it skipping and freezing 75% through, even ont he best media. This is apparently a known flaw with the drive.


#5

Rimmer66

I have burned a number of video dvd using my 401s@811s and done them at 8x on ricohjpn-R01 media and they play fine.

401s@811s eeprom Z mod beta v5-6
HSOK and HSOP have been used.
Nero 6.3.0.3

tested on my dvd player also lite-on
tested on my sony 510a
tested on my bothers yamaha
tested on a friends jvc combo recorder dvd player.


#6

Im with Rimmer66 on this… My drive has a tracking problem and gives back poor results on the RICOHJPNR01 media… Granted this media is not the greatest, its one the most popular… And it supports 8x writing even though its rated at 4x… Ive only burned at 4x with this media because the results get worse with 8x writing…

I think what he is trying to get at is that if your drive performs well, your pretty lucky because the majority of users cant get the drive to perform well…


#7

Hypnosis4U2NV

what we need is to see result on real 8x media, we cant whine over 4x at 8x. we need to see real 8x on a number of 811s and then say if the drive is bad at 8x or not.


#8

Rimmer66, I can empathsize with your anger and frustration that you have gone through with your unfortunate experiences. Since I didn’t read up fully on your initial reactions to the 811S, why did you not just return the drive then?

AFAIK, there are two plants that make these drives, one based in China, and one based in Taiwan. I had been an engineer before and gotten involved with the manufacturing process as well. Since it wasn’t on a retail level, but the processes are similar. There are factors that can contribute to differences in calibration and/or manufacturing techniques, such as: 1) operator(s) that day, 2) bed-of-nails test boards, or 3) software. Granted, all these factors do represent Lite-On as a whole and should they have had better QC? Sure. So does other companies in the retail business. Even just browsing the other subforums, BTC, NEC, Pioneer, or Plextor, there are users that complain about their drives also. Heck, I’m sure nVidia and Microsoft shares some of those responsibilities as well. Typically, if there are orders from the top guys to push the products out before full evaluation is complete, the engineers can’t do much except to oblige. In this era of joblessness, these engineers wouldn’t want to lose their jobs if they came out and say what you are alleging.

It is well within your right to file a complaint. I even recommend getting a petition of users who feel the same way as you. At least this way, you will have a legitimate support.

…and those mother******* claim to be elite engineers, what a bunch of clueless tossers.

Lastly, I don’t appreciate your words here. You are pinpointing a specifc race, even though it may not be your intention.


#9

Originally posted by KenW
[B]Hypnosis4U2NV

what we need is to see result on real 8x media, we cant whine over 4x at 8x. we need to see real 8x on a number of 811s and then say if the drive is bad at 8x or not. [/B]

Thats why I burn at its rated speed, 4x… Im not too concerned about burning at 8x at the moment since it has a hard time burning 4x media at 4x…

Again, this drive does not perform well compared to other writers, which is a shame, since LiteOn has done a bangup job with it CD writer lines!


#10

Originally posted by Rimmer66
To me this is disloyal and borderline fraud. What is supposedly labeled an 8x DVD +R/-R drive only writes 8x DVD+R and 4x DVD-R… Which leads me to believe that the 811S was intended to be a 4x writer that they re-vamped…dishonest little scheme that should be exposed to the general public and to the media (hey I made a great pun - :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: )

as debro has stated, it says specifically on the box that only 4x dvd-r writing is supported, as can be seen here, so i’m not sure what you’re referring to. zebra’s mods also don’t do anything to improve write quality, so any improvement you may see is purely coincidental. zebra has said this many times himself.


#11

Not to go to far off track, but heres a scan that I dont see as acceptable: (written at 4x/dyd-rom type/Nero 6.3.0.3)



#12

Well there are scans and there are scans, here is one I did yesterday.

nero 6.3.0.3 dvd-video burn
401s@811s HSOK v5-6 beta eeprom_y
memorex ricohjpn-R01 4x at 8x
DVD+R bitsetting to DVD-ROM



#13

The Whine-O-Meter is reading pretty high in here.

:rolleyes:


#14

I think KProbe is the cause of this hysteria.

If Kprobe had never been released we would not see so many complaints. I mean, the disc can be written and it can be read back. That’s what we expect from a drive when we buy it, right?

Take a look at the scan I’ve attached. The disc plays without a hitch in every dvd player I’ve tried. But because of KProbe I feel the result is poor. Should I? NO! Without Kprobe I would be really happy with my Liteon because it actually works .

When that is said, I still feel Liteon X11 drives are way to picky about media.



#15

There are a few members here who come to the forums for only one purpose and that is to complain and cause a ruckus without any real action behind it. I’m tiring of the continual whinging of a few members. Not saying don’t complain, it is your right. But you make your point once and then leave it at that.

The Liteon drives are not perfect. But for the most part they seem to be pretty good. Virtually all drives have one problem or another. I initially had problems with my liteon 811s, so I took the advice here and I found some good media and ever since then the drive has worked beautifully.

If your drives are not working, return them and get something else. That is what warranty is for. Stop continually complaining and take some action.

As for K Probe…I no longer trust that program. I use data verification, and speed and CRC tests on various drives. DVD playback on DVD players was initially poor, but a change of media solved my issues.

The 4x issue…where did Lite-on say that the drive would work at 8x DVD-R? Norcent said this, which is not Lite-on. Lite-On may hve told Norcent that the drive works at 8x DVD-R, but Lite-on never released 811s or 851s drives under their name with that pretense. If you’d like to coplain about that and have a Norcent drive, complain to Norcent, this is their problem.

The drive now does everything I want it to and does it well. The discs I have been producing have worked everywhere I play them.

If there is anything here that I’ve said is incorrect, please do correct me.

Weshy.


#16

Is there any real evidence that what Kprobe reports is actually true?

Granted where there are very large errors indicated by Kprobe, DVD’s often have issues.

But if the DVD has been written fine, and can be read fine by most devices, I’d assume that Kprobe may have made a mistake if it indicates gigh error rate.

I’m unsure how Kprobe actually works, but is it possible that since calibration data for each drive differs, Kprobe may not compensate?

Secondly, all LITEON drive owners have absolutely NO claim that the drive could EVER write DVD-R at 8x or DVD-RW at 4x.
You bought a drive with specs that liteon provided. It does what liteon claimed. You can’t bitch about Liteon not supporting a free upgrade to a faster drive.

Thirdly, the people that have bought LDW401’s/411’s, upgraded to 811’s and demanding better specs again should take a reality check. Lite-On has absolutely NO obligation to supply firmware other than then firmware suitable for the 401/411.

For those upgrading the 401, you have violated several international laws, and caused no end of trouble for liteon over licensing! Please, write into Lite-on, tell them your personal details and that you want a free upgrade to a 8x DVD-R. I’m sure they will get back to you :wink:

The only people with any claim is people that bought drives from Norcent. The actual class action suit would be against [b]Norcent[/b[ for misleading advertising.
It would be Norcents responsibility to sue Lite-On over breach of contract/etc for not supplying suitable firmware to upgrade their units.

Liteon has an excellent record for releasing firmware that increases media support. There is NO doubt they will continue to support the 811.

The changeover to the 812 is most likely a ploy to protect their investment in new technology, and I for one support it. Allowing people to upgrade repeatedly from a very cheap drive to an expensive drive would look very bad to their accountants.
They may also have found a way to make their drives better/cheaper to manufacture, and possibly chips/servo’s that will support higher speeds.

I don’t mind if people upgrade their 401/411 to an 811, but i cannot support this wholesale bitching about Liteon not providing support to upgrade your drive to specs they never provided, even if hardware could support it.

i said it before, i’ll say it now,
“You will be laughed out of the courtroom.”
Hopefully liteon doesn’t present you with the Lawyers bill. Might lose em a customer, cos you’ll never be able to afford another drive again.


#17

My Liteon 811s burns verbatim 4x plus at 8x without any problems
and Ritek G04 minus 4x at 4x, with perfect results.
Yes, I have looked at the kprobe results and seen the strange high error rate at the start and none at the end results. But all the dvdinfopro read tests are perfect. I now forget kprobe, it doesn’t really seem to show anything.
I am happy with my Liteon!
It does what it says on the box (plus a bit more)


#18

“There is not ONE person I know with this crap of a drive that has managed to burn a DVD Video without it skipping and freezing 75% through, even ont he best media.”

Rimmer66, that is a humorous statement. How many people do you know with this drive? 1 other person? Well from this point on you can now say that you do know one other person that has ‘managed’ to burn a DVD Video without it skipping or freezing.
I have burned over 50 DVD Videos on DVD-R and DVD+R that work perfectly throughout the entire length of the movie. Maybe you are experiencing an EEOC error? (Equipment Exceeds Operator Capabilities) :stuck_out_tongue:

“Is there any real evidence that what Kprobe reports is actually true?”

Well I can’t speak for anyone else, but whenever I have a large spike on my Kprobe scans that are over acceptable limits, the disc seems to skip on my standalone players at that particular point in the movie. So Kprobe scans have been a good indication for me if the disc will or will not skip/freeze on my standalone players.


#19

i burnded over 50 crappy dvd-r (i mean the media was crappy 1 dvd-r 1€ i bought them before i heard about that i need good quality media, i hat some problems my 411s burned them only with 1x… but after a firmware update 4x and no i have really good dvds… no skipping (with crappy cheap media)

yakumo dvd-r (spec 4x)

burned at 4x
scanned @ 4x 8ecc !!!

for me liteOn did his job… and solong i can burn dvds with dont skipp in “SAP” and which other dvd-roms can read they don´t to release new firmware…


#20

Originally posted by Rimmer66
There is not ONE person I know with this crap of a drive that has managed to burn a DVD Video without it skipping and freezing 75% through, even ont he best media. This is apparently a known flaw with the drive.

Hi, my name is Chris

now you can say u know somebody who has :slight_smile:

This was even on original factory firmware, using 4 diff DVD manufacturers