The technology not ready yet

Writing this from the extremely miserable position of having 18 unreadable DVD-r’s (at 4.7gb each) I think I have entrusted data to a medium that is still in its infancy.
I was so careful to verify each disk after writing, and inserting each one several times (on 2 or 3 PC’s) to make sure they were readable, before deleting the source data from my hdd. Here I am 6 weeks later to find that the 18 previously working DVD-R’s are now completely unreadable - in any drive. I have wasted a long time with data recovery apps that claim to use smart tricks to read corrupted DVD’s but all to no avail. It seems the disks have just rotted away.

That 80gb of data was precious and will take an age to replace.

On reading lots of the posts in these forums, I can see now that the punter has to dabble in the black-art mumbo-jumbo of dyes, plastics, minerals, colours, coatings, firmware revisions, varying speeds etc before they may feel confident in trusting their archive material to DVD backup.

That’s way too much effort for me, I just want to buy a drive, a spindle of decent disks and back up some stuff. I love the ease of the big cheap backup that DVD offers but I will go back to trusty CDR’s, I have many disks that are sevral years old and they still read flawlessly.

If anyone knows a method for un-rotting these DVD’s I will be very grateful,

I doubt there’s any solution so I’ll drop DVD burning until next year when all the major flaws have been sorted.

Dave:

From your way of talking, sounds like your from the UK :). The problems that exist with DVD media existed/exists on CD-R’s aswell.

     The other problem is that the majority of media sold by a lot of places is not great & finding really good media can be a time consuming pain in the rear.

Sounds like you may have just bought some cheap media?

Mind posting what brands you used?

This is the kind of scenario i dread so i done a bit of research before i started to back up my data, its worth it in the long run.

Real sorry about your lost data.
The problem is i wouldn’t 100% expect the situation to improve drastically any time soon & it’ll be up to the consumer to be informed.

Unfortunately, the “fault” is not in the discs, but in the decision to have only one copy of your data. There’s no such thing as a safe digital medium, be it hard drive, floppy, CD or DVD.
It’s not “backed up” if you have but one copy. I hope this is a lesson well learned for other members as well.

2 copies is minimal, 3 copies is best. And preferably on different media types. Hard drive is still the most reliable backup, but you still need 2 or more copies on multiple drives. Take it from someone who has figured out just about every way there is to lose data. :iagree:

Sorry for the negative post, in a better mood this morning. I only bought the MSI DR4-A at Christmas and all appeared fine with the Verbatim media (DVD-R 1-4x)

It’s true that I should not entrust data to one location, but in my several years experience with CDR’s I’ve never had any devastating issues like this, still, as you say, lesson learned.

I suppose my points were for people to be cautious (more cautious than I thought I was being) and that I appreciate that sqeezing all that data onto a 4cm disk is still an amazing feat, albeit not a trustworthy robust secure storage option yet.

Thanks for the feedback - I’ll stop sulking now and see if I can find a better recommeded media for this drive and try again, or should I buy that Pioneer 107?

rdgrimes:

Fair enough points but you have to admit
“Here I am 6 weeks later” is not exactly the sort of life expectancy anyone would reasonably expect from decent quality media, especially when a whole batch of 18 discs All fail in that period.

               I have some Princo (a well known lesser quality manufacturer of media) which are still readable,albeit slowly after 1 year & i've read enough reports about how poor [B]their[/B] media is for longevity.

Taiyo Yuden. remeber that name. They make the best DVD-R u can buy!

do some research. find out about em. and buy some. They wont die in weeks. I’ll be surprised if they are even capable of dying.

I have wasted a long time with data recovery apps that claim to use smart tricks to read corrupted DVD’s but all to no avail.

Did you already try CDRoller, CDCheck and IsoBuster ?

Originally posted by rdgrimes
2 copies is minimal, 3 copies is best. And preferably on different media types. Hard drive is still the most reliable backup, but you still need 2 or more copies on multiple drives. Take it from someone who has figured out just about every way there is to lose data. :iagree:

rdgrimes’ point cannot be stressed enough. For my important data (e.g., other people’s wedding photos), I keep one copy on an internal 250GB drive, at least one copy on a series of drives in external FireWire enclosures, and at least one copy burned to DVD-R. My choice of media: Verbatim DataLifePlus 4X DVD-R (MCC media), Taiyo Yuden 4X DVD-R (TYG01 media), and Arita 4X DVD+R (RICOHJPNR01 media). My burner: Lite-On LDW-811S (HS0P firmware). All my important burns are read verified and KProbed before I put them away in storage.

Hard drives are cheap… why bother deleting files at all? When a drive fills up, I just buy another one and keep adding to it. And at 10 MB each time I click the shutter, those drives don’t last long. :stuck_out_tongue:

Originally posted by Dave Mumbleby
I suppose my points were for people to be cautious (more cautious than I thought I was being) and that I appreciate that sqeezing all that data onto a 4cm disk is still an amazing feat, albeit not a trustworthy robust secure storage option yet.

It can be a robust solution, but unfortunately you are right… there is a lot of black magic involved, and it seems to be more of an art than a science. Before I discovered club.cdfreaks.com :), I also thought that simply reading back a DVD on a few other drives was sufficient. As it turns out, if you look more closely at correctable error rates and read speed reports, you will find an astounding variation. As you have already discovered, the fact that you can read the data 5 minutes after you burned it does not guarantee you can read it a week later, or a month or a year!

I must have spent over a hundred hours testing out a couple dozen different kinds of media with different drives, different drive firmware, different burn speeds, etc. before I was confident that my data would not disappear out from underneath my nose. Yet my DVD-R’s are still my third line of defense, after magnetic hard drive media. One can’t be too safe.

Better luck in the future. :sad:

Yeah , I tried CD-Roller and ISO Buster, not tried CD-Check.

Thing’s driving me mad now, bought some TDK media and some Sony.

From reading more posts, I guessed that the issue I had may be due to mainly packet writing most disks previously (drag n drop) I am now trying Alcohol 120% (this works but only with images (ISO, BIN’s etc and I’ve only tried it with CDR’s as I can’t figure how to make a 4gb image file from my data) and I am also trying Stomp Record Now Max, but I don’t think it recognises my drive somehow. It sees it, but always fails to complete any DVD-R disk (any type of media) seems to fail right at the finalising disk stage, further strange is that my computer can read the contents of the failed disk, but it is impossible to open or copy any of the data.

Wasted all weekend now entirely reloading PC from scratch and trying all sorts of fiddling but still no joy (except for Alcohol, which will burn images to CD) Am I unique in having so much difficulty? Is the MSI drive a bad choice?

Asus A7S333 MB, latest Via 4in1 drivers, 105 revision BIOS, 1gb DDR, MSI DR4-A DVDR (Firmware 1.50) set as secondary master, LG CDR (set as secondary slave, though I have also tried with this removed from the system) Athlon 2600+, Huge bald spot from all the scratching

Sorry if this is the wrong forum.
Regards
Dave
P.S. Mumbelby is made up as someone already had my surname here, though my alter-ego now seems strangely apt.

Originally posted by Dave Mumbleby
From reading more posts, I guessed that the issue I had may be due to mainly packet writing most disks previously (drag n drop) …

You were using packet writing? Other computers are not going to be able to read those discs unless you have specifically installed the necessary packet writing software on them.

For rigorous backups, packet writing is not an option because it is dependent on having the compatible software installed on the computer. Who knows if, 3 years from now, that software will be available and working on the OS of the day? You just want to write ISO 9660 optionally with a secondary Joilet filesystem for long file name support.

Packet writing is only for when you want to use the disc as a large ‘floppy drive’ and constantly read and write to it.

hi dave mumbleby

you are not alone having this problem

i have burned almost 20 DVD discs over the last 3 months and most of them cannot be read now or have CRC errors.

this is my case:

http://www.enming.name:88/forums/index.php?showtopic=1682

Same problem here, lost almost all data on twenty Moser Baer DVDr (I’ve written them off 100%). Data which will take months to restore. So disappointed, heartbroken actually. All my data on my Sony DRM5GG0001 DVDs seem to be entirely still there, except for one. I was shocked to see a couple of video files won’t play on one of the Sony DVDs which is ~2-3yrs old!!

Successfully burning and even verifying means kinda nothing in case of DATA consistency.
With a good burner, decent speed, good media and good storing the data should survive some yeras…

My I ask why you do not burn [B]DATA[/B] (not videos) on [B]DVD-RAM ?[/B]

The DVD-RAM format has a (integrated) defect management system …

As said if your data is very important to you than, [B]multi backups[/B] are the only way.[B] It is just that simple[/B]. I know that this does not help you right now, but at least you are at a point where you can understand things a bit better and not have this problem again.

With my ‘must keep’ data I have a minimum of a Verbatim and a Taiyo Yuden backup/burnt disk, and if its very important an archive and working copy as well. Optical media is still quite a young medium no matter what anyone says, hard drives have been around for over 50 years so they have had time to grow and learn that is why many have said that is the safe way, but still never trust a single medium. My dad (who has worked with computers since the late '50’s) always talked about a 3x3 backup standard so you have at least 3 copies on 3 types of medium kept in 3 places, that is over kill for everyday use …but then, just how important is your data ? I also use Quick Par2 files with the data burnt on to the disks to you can rebuild the missing data back if there are ever problems.

If its very important (what you have on the non working disks) something like a LiteOn drive, unless others think there is a better reader ? and a lot of spare time you might be able to get something back. Try not to spend money by using trial versions and just keep at it.

Dont bother with cheaper media there is a reason why I (and I expect others here) only use Verbatim and a Taiyo Yuden media for important data if not all burns, and I also have quite a few tests I run on a fresh burn to get some proof that its a good burn just using the CRC check is not a long term test…