The standalone DVD recorder paradox - How is this possible?

vbimport

#1

I’ve got a paradox for you. If the minimum specification with DVD+R is to record at 2.4x (and subsequently the lowest permitted recording speed on computer burners) how is it possible for standalone recorders to burn DVD+R media in real time, i.e. at 1x?

I know DVD-R are capable at recording at 1x, but I would suspect standalone recorders have a different firmware than computer which enables them to record at 1x, since a recorder cannot possibly record any faster than real time, despite all the hubbub saying you can’t burn DVD+R media at 1x… You must, otherwise a recorder wouldn’t record, surely?

Any ideas? Custom firmware that permits it to record at 1x? Perhaps it’s really recording at a faster rate? Who knows :slight_smile:


#2

DVD recorders do not have recording speeds, like a VCR, but Recording Modes. DVD Recording modes can be used when recording from outside sources, such as a VCR or Camcorder. The DVD Recording Modes enable the user to put more video time on a DVD disc by increasing the amount of compression in the video signal, not changing the rotation speed of the disc.

The downside to putting more video time on a DVD disc is a loss of quality in the recorded video and possibly decreasing playback compatibility on other DVD players.

Disc Writing Speed, on the other hand, has no relation to how much time you can put on a DVD disc, but refers to how fast you can dub from a computer or DVD recorder hard drive, or from another disc to a recordable DVD disc. Disc Writing Speeds are used when making copies of video or data from internal pre-recorded sources, residing on a PC, DVD Recorder hard drive, or another disc.


#3

My guess is that the standalone DVD recorder burns at an optimized speed which might be e.g. 2x, 2.4x or 4x, but that it buffers a certain amount of data and then records that data in a burst, then waits while buffering, then records in another burst.

This is only a guess, however.


#4

[QUOTE=Mr. Belvedere;2619188]DVD recorders do not have recording speeds, like a VCR, but Recording Modes. DVD Recording modes can be used when recording from outside sources, such as a VCR or Camcorder. The DVD Recording Modes enable the user to put more video time on a DVD disc by increasing the amount of compression in the video signal, not changing the rotation speed of the disc.

The downside to putting more video time on a DVD disc is a loss of quality in the recorded video and possibly decreasing playback compatibility on other DVD players.

Disc Writing Speed, on the other hand, has no relation to how much time you can put on a DVD disc, but refers to how fast you can dub from a computer or DVD recorder hard drive, or from another disc to a recordable DVD disc. Disc Writing Speeds are used when making copies of video or data from internal pre-recorded sources, residing on a PC, DVD Recorder hard drive, or another disc.[/QUOTE]

You bring up some interesting points :iagree:

I am aware of recording modes, however please excuse my ignorance for not understanding what you are saying.

Fair enough video compression, but how does a disc get recorded onto from the moment I hit record?


#5

These specs doesnt count for drives into standalones, they mostly got special firmwares to allow 1x burning even with DVD+R media.
I rem that there also was a benq or qsi optical drive which could achieve the same, probably by accident…


#6

Some standalones are capable of greater than 1X . Mine with DVR can “High speed dub” from the DVR. I haven’t used this feature but I’m sure it is greater than 1X.
I use the AZO Verbatims if I’m going to burn a permanant DVD with my standalone.
I usually just watch from the DVR or if I need it portable I use a Verbatim +/- RW .
I also have some cheaper RW’s that work OK.


#7

[QUOTE=cholla;2619208]Some standalones are capable of greater than 1X . Mine with DVR can “High speed dub” from the DVR. I haven’t used this feature but I’m sure it is greater than 1X.
I use the AZO Verbatims if I’m going to burn a permanant DVD with my standalone.
I usually just watch from the DVR or if I need it portable I use a Verbatim +/- RW .
I also have some cheaper RW’s that work OK.[/QUOTE]

Just to clarify, im talking about recording in real time, (i.e. Live, not dubbing from HDD to DVD and vice versa :slight_smile: )


#8

[QUOTE=Chad_Bronson;2619228]Just to clarify, im talking about recording in real time, (i.e. Live, not dubbing from HDD to DVD and vice versa :slight_smile: )[/QUOTE]
I was just noting that a standalone must have the capability to record faster than 1X . This has to be done from the DVR(harddrive) inside the standalone . Some VCR/DVD combo units also dub I’m not sure if they can high speed dub from VHS to DVD . I have one of these but I would need to look at the manual.

Unless there is a buffer as DrageMester suggested I think 1x is the only way recording would work. Meaning you can’t record faster that the data is input. Even then the buffer would need to be large. That is where the DVR is good for this ,


#9

Bizarre, isnt it? :stuck_out_tongue:

Theres nothing in the manual either :frowning:


#10

See this post for an illustration and a link describing “burst” recording to DVDs in stand alone recorders:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12298490&postcount=19#HSD9

See the following post for a listing of DVD Drive speed ratings of recent and current (2007-2011) Philips and Magnavox HDD/DVD recorders. The Philips models and the Magnavox 2080 have 4x DVD Drives and the rest are 8x. When high-speed dubbing a DVD the 4x DVD Drives takes 25 minutes or more to dub a full DVD; the 8x DVD Drives take about 15 minutes to dub a full DVD.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12355769&postcount=39#DVDReplace

Of those listed models I own all of those recorders except the Magnavox 513.

I also own three Panasonic HDD/DVD recorders of 2005/2006 vintage (one DMR-EH75 and two DMR-EH50 models). When high-speed dubbing in Silent Mode a full DVD takes from 13 to 17 minutes.

I also own many non-hard drive stand alone DVD recorders from Panasonic. I don’t know what “x” specification these DVD Drives have.

I also own several non-hard drive DVD recorders manufactured by Funai with the Magnavox, Toshiba, Emerson and PYE brand names. The DVD Drive model numbers of these “standard” Funai DVD Drives indicate that these are of 1x to 3x specification. As seen in these examples, the fifth digit in the model number usually indicates the “x” specification of Funai DVD Drives:




#11

Very informative DigaDo since my standalones are Funai inside.
I don’t think I will go inside one just to check the drive speed even if I have exchanged the 160GB harddrive in a couple for a 500GB .
If anyone knows ;
Is there a software that can determine the write speed that a writeable disc was written ? To make it clear this would be a way to check after the disc has been burned even one burned a long time ago .


#12

As far as I’m aware Cholla, my own experience with a eVision DVD/HDD recorder and Techwood DVD recorder, the burners installed in them are cheap, OEM burners, produced by DVSKOREA (using, interestingly enough, exactly the same burner). Since DVSKOREA, or whomever produced your own burner, have no firmware updates (not even custom ones will work) you’re stuck with the instructions the manufacturer placed upon it.

As far as I’m aware, the only information ImgBurn provides, for example, is only the “Disc Control Blocks Information” is DVSKOREA DRL-200 - My burner in my Techwood DVD recorder :iagree:

Does that help? :slight_smile:


#13

I found the
Disc Control Blocks Information:
MAGNAVOX MWR10D6
So it isn’t the DVSKOREA drive.
The Magnavox standalones which are Funai inside have had some firmware updates but this was not to the burner.

I would still like a way to check any disc to see what the write speed it was written to is.
I know what write speed I usually use on computer burns so it would be easy to see if a software confirmed this.
I was just curious to see what write speed the standalones were using.


#14

[QUOTE=cholla;2619369]@ Chad_Bronson , Where did you find the “Disc Control Blocks Information” in ImgBurn?
I just checked a disc & couldn’t find this.
The Magnavox standalones which are Funai inside have had some firmware updates but this was not to the burner.[/QUOTE]

No problem :slight_smile: If you hit the verify option on ImgBurn and scroll down on the right hand pane, and you will see Disc Control Blocks Information :slight_smile:

Just before it reports the physical format information (ADIP) and Disc ID, it shows the Disc Control Blocks Information :slight_smile:

If the recorder was produced by an offcut brand like Funai / Magnavox, the chances are the burner was produced by DVSKOREA as well since… Well, it’s hardly Toshiba or Panasonic :bigsmile:


#15

I edited the last post but looks like Magnavox badges a drive with their own logo.
From all I’ve read the Magnavox units are manufactured by Funai. So the burner drive should be Funai too.
The first disc I checked was an - RW & it didn’t show the “Disc Control Blocks Information”.
The second was an + R recorded a while back on my combo unit. The output unit was an old Samsung ( now retired but still working).
So maybe ImgBurn doesn’t show the information for an RW .


#16

Hmm, very interesting… Would it be possible it is based on the computer burner you are using? Some PC/Laptop burners may not read them, while others do… Or, some recorders may imprint the information perhaps? :slight_smile:

Are Magnovox really produced by Funai? :eek: I thought Funai itself was simply rebadged OEM units (I’m thinking from Phillips?) Oh dear :frowning:


#17

I know Funai makes several brands . I don’t know if they are owned by Phillips.
I can check on my other drive that is in my computer .
It is Samsung instead of Lite-On
It also may be because the RW is a - & unfinalized. I usually don’t need to finalize because they can be played in all my standalones .
I will check this out & post.


#18

All right, no worries :slight_smile:


#19

I checked with a finalized -RW & a +RW . ImgBurn didn’t show “Disc Control Blocks Information” for either.
Also checked with both drives in my computer.
Does ImgBurn display this information for you with an RW ?


#20

In this post and the post following it I’ve put up some photos comparing three Funai-manufactured DVD Recorders from 2006:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18808146#post18808146

At the AVS Forum I’ve also described similarities/differences and posted similar photos of 2007 and 2008 Funai-manufactured DVD Recorders, Magnavox, Philips, Toshiba and Sylvania. Other Funai-manufactured brands include Emerson, TruTech, Symphonic and Philco, among others.