The longer DW1620 runs, the worse gets PI Error in scan?

vbimport

#1

Hi everybody, did anyone of you notice the effect that the longer a DW1620 runs and warms up (open pc, cool room, cpu 44°C, mobo chipset 22°C), the worse the PI Error rate in scans get?

Example (all scans @8x of a Verbatim DVD-R 8x MCC 02RG20 written @8x):

  1. Scan after PC runs couple of hours:
    PI errors Maximum: 66 Average: 20.93 Total: 297916

(PC off about 2 hours)

  1. Scan soon after booting:
    PI errors Maximum: 41 Average: 12.29 Total: 163190

  2. PC on for a while after doing scan 2):
    PI errors Maximum: 71 Average: 20.41 Total: 289524

(CPU 43°C, Mobo 22°C, DW1620 feels quite hot)

  1. After one scan at maximum speed, this (at 8x again):
    PI errors Maximum: 76 Average: 23.24 Total: 331951

Load & Eject test with Nero CD DVD Speed

  1. immediately after L&E, the next scan @8x:
    PI errors Maximum: 106 Average: 21.19 Total: 300134
    (first time the Average drops a little bit, but Max increases by 1/3!)

Scanning another DVD-R (written with LG GSA-4163B) at Max Speed

  1. Again a scan of the DVD-R used for the other tests in this post:
    PI errors Maximum: 94 Average: 21.71 Total: 310521
    Like 5), so this is the error rate most probable to

Anyone any ideas? I do think it probably is a problem with the drive hardware itself - warming up seems to excerbate the PI Error rate read by the drive, while PI Failures (676, 634, 652, 651, 606, 690) stay about the same (15% deviation).

Regards!

PS: I let the PC run about 45min without testing, DVD-R in drive, and do another test then. After that, I will again let the PC cool down another 45min but with the DVD-R in the drive to make sure the temperature of the DVD itself is not (or at least not much) important.


#2

That sounds almost like the drive is having some sort of electronic problem or over-heating issue. My burns stay nice and steady and I leave my PC on for DAYS (as long as XP doesn’t blow up on itself of course, heh…) and never experience anything different in my burns that I notice. Hmmmm, oman, did you ever say what kind of power supply you are running on that PC? Is it enough to handle everything in the computer and the BenQ when it starts to do a burn? :slight_smile:


#3

Ok test with a cool DVD-R and a drive being idle for around an hour:
PI errors Maximum: 58 Average: 15.64 Total: 215729
Bit better, but not as good as with a cool drive.

braxas, good question about the PSU, but IIRC it is a Chieftec 400W with PFC - all voltages in the voltage monitor are as always (do not change by more than 1% whatever I am doing) and the LG GSA-4163B in this same PC works fine, though it has a max Watts rating of 31.5W opposed to the 26.8W the BenQ. As I run my XP1600+ atm at its normal clock of 1400MHz and do not use 3d or so, I dont see there should be a problem with this. Anyway I will try to get some power consumers out later, though the sum of power needed now is not much higher than before with the 2 cd writers - let alone overclocked GPU and CPU I sometimes have. The drive itself is always warmer (to the touch, cannot do an exact measurement) than all the other drives.

I assume your drive does react less on temperature?. I start to think it is a temperature issue, too.

Next scan is through, too and drive a little bit warmer, and values a bit worse:
PI errors Maximum: 81 Average: 19.52 Total: 275046

Now I let the disc in and let the drive alone for another hour to check whether DVD temperature has an influence on the scan results.

Thanks so far, regards!

PS/Edit: these are not burns, just a Nero CD DVD Scan of the same Verbatim DVD-R 8x over and over (a little bit tired of wasting media). The writing quality of the LG (remember, which needs more power) is constant, but the scanning quality of the BenQ gets worse and worse.

PPS: PS in first post was “… let cool drive with no disc in … test … let cool drive with disc in … test” to find out whether better values come from cooler media or cooler drive or maybe both.
Back in an hour !


#4

Oman, I don’t see any connection between up time and burn quality, at least in my own experience. I never turn of my PC, only reboot once a few days, sometime once a week. My scans are quite consistent.


#5

I’m with zevia…computer is on all the time, no noticeable difference in the burn quality
FYI my ambient case temp is ~40 C all the time


#6

Yep, have to agree with zevia and sammyk007. For this reason I’d almost have to suggest that the drive is a faulty unit and not operating correctly at some level.

@Sammyk007: I concur with that, seems my temperature is right about that 40 degree mark as well. Nice, cool, and quiet… how I love too have my computers built. :wink:


#7

Ok everybody I have to agree … as I never have temperatures as high as yours inside my pc (mobo temp in summer, pc closed, is more about 34-36°C), it appears to me there is some problem with the drive itself. I will do a last scan now to see whether results of drive at “idle temperature” with disc in are as with idle temperature and disc from outside … I guess it will be that way which would show it really is a problem with the writer.

Thanks for your help, and maybe a temperature sensitive drive is something to consider if someone else comes up with burning or scanning problems!

Doing the last 1 or 2 tests now … I will also have a look at power issues as well, but I almost rule them out, though better double check against all possible problems.

Again thank you and see you later!

PS: Edit:
Another scan, drive was idle for about an hour, disc was in:
PI errors Maximum: 116 Average: 22.75 Total: 325937

The usual average error and PI Failures still about the same as in the first scan with “cold” computer. Would say something wrong with the drive. Yuck. Anyway, that is what warranty is for!


#8

oman > Reading the posts you’ve made about your BenQ don’t look good. If it’s not to much trouble i’d take it back and get another. There’s no ODD forum here that doesn’t have a post where someone has no problems. There’s bad drives produced by every mfgr. Hope your newly acquired BenQ works out.


#9

Re-hi all

I think I can say I finished my testing so far. Here are some things I did:

  • wrote a CDS Test DVD last night with “warm” drive
  • tested several times and saw PIE going up to a maximum and then varying around that
  • turned pc off and went to bed :wink:
  • this morning, I set the DW1620 to another drive slot so there is one free slot over the drive for better heat dissipation
  • removed all unnecessary power consumers from my pc (cards, external usb, one cd-rom drive)
  • ran the tests again

Below are three Disc Quality Scans at 8x of DVD-R 8x written @8x with DW1620:

  1. The last one last night with probably hotter drive than reached today (at the outside at least)
  2. The first one this morning when drive was quite cool and
  3. One showing nearly the maximum number of PIE s all following scans oscillate around, it was done as the 5th test during 1.5 hours all at 8x.

Between tests I opened the tray and took the dvd-r out and felt its temperature - quite normal it appeared to me. A 4x test done for “comparison” gave a little bit higher results though the drive was cooler when I ran it … can someone confirm that he has not this problem of varying results with DVD-Rs or not as worse at least? Testing some DVD+R media later.

TIA for your time and interest :wink:





#10

Hmm - it looks like this values getting worse does not happen with DVD+R media
Verbatim DVD+R 8x MCC 003 - just did two tests and they look pretty much the same.

So could anybody please scan a DVD-R three times on after the other to verify or contradict my finding?

TIA.


#11

Check your power suply . There might be your problems


#12

Your last comment is really interresting. Hmm I will have to look something again since this sounds like something I heard befor however I then thought it was just marketing crap. (It was about +R being supperior when it comes to reading back as -R) As soon as I have more info I will come return on that one.

About the above -R disc’s. I don’t found the rise in B and C to be that worrying. It’s only the spike in the begining and at that place it’s not that critical. Also this difference at a spot can sometimes also be seen at other drives. So that one doesn’t make me worry.
However picture A does seem to be weird.Since that rise is to high. hmm based on your input I say the heat is building up inside the drive.


#13

Regarding Power Supply:
I really think it should suffice, but I will test again with only this drive inside besides the hdds. Soundcard USB2 card and external devices are already disconnected. BTW the LG works great and needs more max power, so I seriously doubt this is the reason.

Wrote a test DVD+R (Verbatim 8x@8x) and get
PI errors Maximum: 17 Average: 2.89 Total: 26965
PI failures Maximum: 8 Average: 0.04 Total: 301

These PIE/PIF are no better or worse than those of my LG, so no win in quality with the BenQ - so I just dont need it.

I will do a transfer test on a Tosh SD-C2402 again, but I really think I downgrade the firmware to G7L9 again, return the drive for a refund (got it by mail-order) and wait until the Pro is available locally again. I do not expect to get a better drive from the shop, so I do not risk to lose the 14 days no-questions-ask money-back warranty by testing another drive of these.

Thank you anyway for help!

Greets.


#14

Has anyone else noticed that in the 3 pics posted, although the PIE errors jump in absolute value, the overall form of the graph remains fairly similar… not to mention the PIF values are almost EXACTLY the same in all scans… and so is the jitter.

I would think that if heat was affecting PIE value, it would be doing something similar to PIF values at least.

I’m not totally convinced that the drive is borked… or at least not as borked as originally suspected. Can you possibly try burning/testing another type of media? Maybe Ritek or Optodisc or CMC? Something with a very different dye type then what Verbatim uses.


#15

I am not talking about the max output of your power suply but the variations in voltage suplying . If u do have a chance do test it on a different pc


#16

All voltages are rock stable over some 16 hours of operation, according to MBM5. Biggest change I ever saw was a mere 0.8% on 5V. But as mainboard sensors are not that reliable, I will hook up an digital oscilloscope to +5V and +12V and record changes over some hours to be sure. If i am not sure about those results, I will test with another PSU. But as this one did everything well so far including overclocking CPU/GPU and driving more devices and fans than now and current for all voltages is not even at 2/3rd of the max (more like 50% though this is hard to calculate for the mainboard itself) I think it would be more a problem of some fan feeding back spikes into 12V. Will look into that as well.

As long as this issue only appears when scanning DVD-Rs and PIF rate / Jitter do not change much anyway, I think I will just ignore it, as I see no logical explanation why DVD+ scans do not change that much at all.