The Future Of Clonecd!

What do you think Olli will do about these new protections that rely on the physical structure of the CD to detect copies and originals.

Some of them will be discovered as fake…such as Tagès. People’ve made up their minds even for a protection that is used only on one single game. Don’t forget this.

I’m there will be a way. Years ago, Safedisc’s protection was considered unbreakable, and same for SD2, but look at them now. All it takes is the right combination of software and hardware.

Some of them will be discovered as fake…such as Tagès. People’ve made up their minds even for a protection that is used only on one single game. Don’t forget this.

What do you mean by fake? :confused:

I know someone has discovered how Tages works and how it can be copied, but as long as we normal people can’t copy Tages with CloneCD, BlindWrite Suite, CDMate, CDRWin, etc then it’s for me still a real uncopyable protection!!

Let Olli implement a new button (such as AWS) for copying Tages, then you can say: Tages is “fake”.

My 2 cents. :stuck_out_tongue:

With “fake” I mean protections that are said to use physical properties because it sounds well, but which don’t use them indeed.

It’s only a matter of time till Tagès can be copied with programs you mentioned. It’s not easy to find all the twin sectors correctly.

It would also represent an enormous amount of time and effort on olli’s part and the developers of clonecd’s rivals to implement a tages copying feature and, at this stage, it’s hardly worth the effort.

This protection may have been a technical success (though apparently a way to beat it has been found, just not for the ordinary user) but it’s been a total failure commercially so why bother. After all, does it really matter if you can’t make a perfect copy of the European version of MotoRacer 3 and one obscure Russian game.

A more significant protection to investigate and, hopefully, beat for the ordinary user IMHO is Protect CD 5 which is being used with increasing frequency, particularly by Jowood on German language titles.

I agree with Philamber.

ProtectCD 5 and Star-Force are extremely good protections which cannot be copied by CloneCD.

This protection may have been a technical success (though apparently a way to beat it has been found, just not for the ordinary user) but it’s been a total failure commercially so why bother.

To show them that even such ones are taken down.

AtomicX:
Do you know how ProtectCD 5 works? I don’t. If you know more than I do, then you’re welcome to explain it on the technical forum.
I don’t know either how StarForce works (I only think that it is said to be based on CD Cops)

I know how Star-Force works, it works on the same principal as CD Cops, as you know. However they have improved the check system so that the accuracy is much higher than LinkData’s protection. Star-Force use a 24 digit key as opposed to an 8 or 9 digit key.

Whereas CD Cops used the ordinary CD sector read DLLs (name_16, name_32, name_NT DLLs), Star-Force I believe uses ASPI drivers (or similar). I guess this because it only uses the auto-install driver under XP / 2K which doesn’t have ASPI drivers by default. These drivers are as you know, much more powerful with many more commands, though the read times are not neccessarily more accurate.

I do not know how ProtectCD 5 works (I haven’t been able to get a CD yet. I managed to get the Tagés game free (Some guy didn’t want it because the game is rubbish), CD-COPS free (old protected game) and Star-Force for a week (a guy gave me an imported Russian copy on loan) )

Originally posted by alexnoe
To show them that even such ones are taken down.

I agree with that; what I meant with my previous post is that it probably isn’t worth olli & co. spending much time on tages given that there are other, more widely used, protections that cause difficulties.

AtomicX, where did you find out how Star-force works, do you have a link to the info? I would like to read any other stuff.

Nowhere. I tested a CD.

I’ve got a small question to ask:
A friend of mine has a KDG(koch-datarius) pressed cd with 3 circles on them(like laserlock rings) i don’t know if it’s alcatraz protection but it’s really hard to copy; i was only able to have backup partially working if i shut down the system after the cd has being burnt till the first circle.

:o

Hi,

As most new games are on DVD medium now in the console world and soon the PC world, surely clone Cd will soon become useless anyway

Hi,
i have stopped cracking games or protection schemes since one year ago.
So i know a lot of the older protections. CloneCd makes me “workless”, he, he.
And i didn´t start cracking again, never ever. And so i´m only read sometimes
the related topics about copying games - but by reading some comments my head
blows away.
The question about the future of CCD is quit useless. At first the authors
of burner software have to decide which way they want to go. If like Oli,
in the past i read an comment from him, that he decides to writes only an
1:1 copyprog.,CCD may be dead.
He doesn´t wants to manipulate or patch data while copying.
But i´m sure, really sure, that you won´t able to backup the newest and
upcomming protections by real 1:1 copying. Really, everytime it´s possible
to find an combination between Reader/Burner and CCD to backup succsessfully
an protection, but after some weeks an very small changing in the code -
like safedisc 2.60.150 to 2.61.200 as example - and the copy sucks !
What you want ? Every week to buy a new Burner ? Or Reader ?
No, i think. On this way we lost the “war”, sure.
The other way is to implements an small “patcher” into the burning software,
which detects the protection scheme and manipulate datas to bypass it.
This could be realized and needs continously updates for the upcoming
versions. But it´s not the way of CCD at time.
For example FantomCd does so with the “Bypass EFM Error” option.
By this way you are able to backup some protections without very special
hardware. But understand me well : This is not an real 1:1 copy ! It´s
manipulating datas. And it could difficult to offer such burning prog.
worldwide for the very different national copyright laws.
I believe - no future for an official release worldwide.
But this may the one and only way to manage working backups for the hardest
actual protections, also the upcoming ones.
Or Oli change his rules, he, he.
To believe one 1:1 burning software will backup all new potections (or the most)
without changing datas, is science fiction !
Think about.
Tijay

Above needs editing!

Originally posted by Tijay
To believe one 1:1 burning software will backup all new potections (or the most)
without changing datas, is science fiction !

Hardly. Clonecd is very much alive and well. It still makes perfect copies of the current major protections (safedisc, seurerom & laserlock) without difficulties with the right hardware. Sure it can’t copy tages (which is hardly common), protect cd 5 (used a bit by jowood, particularly on German releases but jowood seems to have switched to securerom recently) and starforce (also rare).

The reality is that the difficulties that most people have encountered recently in copying the latest safedisc and securerom protected games are almost entirely due to the limitations of their hardware.

So far as safedisc 2.51 and above are concerned, if you have what is commonly known as a 2 sheep efm burner (alexnoe, please note the “commonly known”) copying it is a snap. Practically any software (other than ezcd cremator with which you can’t burn cds anyway :stuck_out_tongue: ) with a raw burning mode can do it (yes even nero). It’s just that most people use clonecd because not only is it effective but it’s very simple to use.

New securerom new (securerom 3) is the protection that some people claim to be impossible but, in fact, it isn’t a problem so long as your reader is a good sub-code reader. If you have a Toshiba or Lite-on dvd as your reader, you’re unlikely to have any problems even with the default game cd profile. I certainly don’t. :slight_smile:

Where many people encounter problems is where they only have a writer to use as a reader as a number of them, particularly Lite-ons and especially the Ltr-24102b, don’t read the sub-codes with sufficient accuracy to produce a good raw image. The rub here is that there isn’t any way to know how good a reader of sub-codes any particular individual writer is until you try it. The variations in the capabilities of individual writers in this respect can be enormous despite the fact that they are of the same make and model and using the same firmware.

For example, very few Ltr-24102b writers can produce a good raw image of a new securom new cd using the default game cd profile, though most (but not all) can with a custom profile. As it happens, my peculiarly eccentric 24102b is one that can produce a good raw image with the default profile but I recognise that it is one of only a few.

As it happens, I had the opportunity to test the new securerom new protected “The Thing” which was released here in oz only last week (so it is obviously using the very latest version of securerom). I found it no more difficult to copy than any previous version of securerom.

First I just made a copy with alcohol 120% using its standard securerom new settings reading and writing at maximum speeds and copying on-the-fly. That took a whole 2 min and 12 secs.

Then I used clonecd with my Ltd-163 as reader with the default game cd profile, reading at max and writing at max (but to a cdrw so that was only 10x). However, to make it a bit more of a challenge, I used the copy I’d just made as the source cd rather than the original.

When I’d done that I used the further copy as the source cd to make a further copy with clonecd this time using my Ltr-24102b as both reader and writer again using the default game cd profile and reading and writing at max.

All copies installed and ran without a hint of a problem from both my dvd and from my cdrw (curiously though, they even ran from my cdrw without hide cd media being enabled).

Conclusion: Clonecd is very much alive and well. The difficulties that most people are encountering with the latest protections are largely due to hardware deficiencies not as a result of any inadequacy in clonecd (though, of course, like anything else, it could always be improved :wink: ).

The rub here is that there isn’t any way to know how good a reader of sub-codes any particular individual writer is until you try it.

That’s easy. Read the same disc at least 3 times and compare the sub files.

Tagès won’t be used IMHO, since if they started using it, Olli would react in an appropriate way :stuck_out_tongue:

Originally posted by alexnoe
That’s easy. Read the same disc at least 3 times and compare the sub files.

True enough, but they don’t usually let you do that before you’ve bought the writer. :wink:

Please, don´t missunderstand me ! I don´t wants to start an war against Oli and his work, or against CCD - Fan´s !!
He is the greatest pioneer for programming burning software. His work was the milestone for real 1:1 backups, and millions of users worldwide have to appreciate him.
But you have to accept the facts. For example Plextor. This Hardware are the best for Audio Ripping and Burning in the past.
Look back to the old PX 820 burner. This was able to backup Safedisc protections without any problems. No trouble with weak sectors and so on. Why, do you think, the newer ones couldn´t do so ? Believe that, the Software Industry forced them to stop building such perfect hardware. They set them under pressure.
For a long time CCD was the armageddon for the Software Industry. I can´t imagine how many time, money and political pressure the invest to affect the hardware industry and the programmers of burning software. Also Oli got a bit of that. Remember. And now ? 6 month ago you need this burner, today that burner. And tomorrow ? The discussion of protections goes closer and closer to the hardware. And this is the total wrong way. I repeat again : You never get an burning prog. for working backups under the most common protections without changing datas. Or you have to own 2, 3 different burners in your system.
Do you think the software industry is full of stupid dimwits ?
In this moment they work on the next safedisc, securom, tages and what ever Version. This is an real arms race.
What we need, is an simple solution without the hardware factor.
And this, so i´m sure, could only be an “intelligent” copyprog. with bypassing the critical datas.
May be you have an other opinion about, but it must be allowed to think about an other way.
Wait for the DVD mediums, and the war starts again by zero.
I hope, Oli finds an way to manage it - without the hardware factor, but i don´t believe.
Tijay