The Death Of Verbatim?

vbimport

#1

“Actually, the AZO line is being dropped (at least from retail sale). The Life Series discs now gradually being phased in will cost the same as the old AZO DVD discs. As a result, once the AZO (MCC coded) media is gone from retail store shelves, it will be gone forever (or at least will become increasingly hard to find).”

http://club.myce.com/f58/verbatim-16x-r-100-pack-19-99-free-shipping-newegg-309850/#post2511070


#2

[B]OMG!!![/B] another one bites the dust what is the media
world coming to? I guess it all comes down to the all mighty dollar
now days. I guess some or all of the company execs decided on this
in the board room or maybe it was decided on in the back room.

[B](We can sell them some crap media and charge them the same
exact price as we were getting for the good stuff so it is a lot
more money going into our pockets.)[/B] :a

Not me I won’t be lining their pockets with my money any more
not for crap media anyway. :disagree: Now if it turns out to be half way
decent to excellent media for less then the MCC costs then and
only then I might consider giving them my money again. :confused:


#3

It’s shocking, but it wouldn’t surprise me that much if that rumour proves to be true.

If anybody remembers the Pearl White 8x DVD media from Verbatim Europe (RITEK R03 and CMC MAG E01). The Verbatim Super Azo CD-R media is also increasingly difficult to find, even though they have been making it in India instead of Taiwan for a few years now.

I’m sure Verbatim will keep their cash cows (MediDisc, UltraLife Gold) alive, but these are an expensive business and might not be the best option for daily burning needs.

Super Azo CD-R can still be found in Europe, while they have apparently been vanishing in North America for a few years now. Chances are that Europeans will be untroubled by those Value Line Verbies for some time. I’d stick to YUDEN000T03 if this really turns out to be true.


#4

I wonder if FTI will ever start manufacturing AZO CD-Rs with MCC ATIP. That would be fantastic.


#5

Oh man. I’ve been going through my nice AZO discs like there’s no tomorrow, think I might be a bit more careful now, while I still have half my stash left. :eek:

:sad::sad:

Mind you, there is always a bright side: an excuse for another media hunt in PC World and Staples. :iagree:


#6

I dont have a stash of AZO cd’s, time to get some?


#7

[QUOTE=vroom;2511160]I dont have a stash of AZO cd’s, time to get some?[/QUOTE]

It’s always a good time to get some of them. :bigsmile:

@negritude - I have to :bow: to you for your threads/titles - they always make people want to click, or take a second look and read closer. :slight_smile:


#8

guess it is time to stop buying the 100 packs at sams and just get some FTI discs online now


#9

[QUOTE=Arachne;2511162]It’s always a good time to get some of them. :bigsmile:

@negritude - I have to :bow: to you for your threads/titles - they always make people want to click, or take a second look and read closer. :)[/QUOTE]

I’ll see what i can find, but a have a few of them (MII) for reviews only :bigsmile:


#10

I totally agree! Verbatim is taking a dump on their customers and I for one won’t buy their media once the quality of the dye which IMO was ok to begin with will get worse. Isn’t it bad enough AZO dye has a 2-year half-life? Anything worse and you might as well wipe your behind with the discs after 2 years…

Just MAYBE verbatim & other companies are hedging that Blu-Ray discs will end up replacing DVD in the coming year (in terms of evolution of consumer demand) and won’t use quality dye in dvds anymore instead focusing on the BD media. As it is, 25gb discs are going under $2 each in qty. Once the burners go under $100 each I’m sure we poor folk will splurge enmasse to be able to do 25gb backups instead of 4 or 8gb at a clip. Does anyone have the specs on just how LONG a burned 25/50g disc will last? Is it any better than the average dvd / cdr?


#11

[QUOTE=tmc8080;2511237]Isn’t it bad enough AZO dye has a 2-year half-life?[/QUOTE] If you by that mean that 50% of Verbatim AZO CD/DVD media become unreadable after 2 years, then you are absolutely mistaken.


#12

Just skimmed this but let me get the straight, Verbatim disc will no longer be the MCC mid?


#13

[QUOTE=Jedi Master Yoda;2511318]Just skimmed this but let me get the straight, Verbatim disc will no longer be the MCC mid?[/QUOTE]

At least the ones that are sold at most big-box office and electronics superstores. It’s too soon to tell whether the Life Series will be as “reliable” as the old AZO DVD discs - but in my limited testing, the DVD-Rs are pretty good (at least at my normal 8x burn speed). The DVD+Rs are not quite as good due to the relatively high jitter levels common to all CMC MAG M01 media.


#14

[QUOTE=DrageMester;2511296]If you by that mean that 50% of Verbatim AZO CD/DVD media become unreadable after 2 years, then you are absolutely mistaken.[/QUOTE]

What this really means is that after 2 years if you were to write 100% of a dvd recordable space… there is a 50% chance that you might incur an unrecoverable read error… this is NOT to say that the entire disc is unusable or unreadable… it just means if that sector of data was a lynchpin for the rest of the data you might be SOL. Most people don’t have redundancy issues such as that so not to worry, most files are recoverable such as video files and other data won’t be unusable… and you still have a 50% chance of it not happening. I’m just pointing out a half-life issue with dvd media since the industry moved towards dyes that are that degrade at a higher pace than in previous generations of the media such as 2x, 4x, 8x media. Some might disagree, but this is a simple fact that modern dyes that are capable of 16-20x recording have that trade-off in longevity vs speed… much the way recharging Nickel-Metal Hydryde Batteries (nimh) in 15 minutes vs 4 hours reduces it’s life cycle from 1000 charges down to about 500.


#15

[QUOTE=tmc8080;2511432]What this really means is that after 2 years if you were to write 100% of a dvd recordable space… there is a 50% chance that you might incur an unrecoverable read error…[/QUOTE]
Any proof of this, a cite, or link …or is it just something you feel ?

I get thru a lot of MCC because of work (and if it (AZO) stops I dont know what we are going to do) and when I find a really good batch/box I have a 100 odd for my self to keep back for 3x3 burns of stuff that cant be lost.

As such I have some (well, quite a lot …as I look round at the two 600 boxes full of it) that are 5 plus years old and I have never seen an “unrecoverable read error” ever, which I take it you mean a POF, because if you are just talking about PIF errors then all media has them from day one.


#16

Sounds to me like they’re just doing the same thing with DVDRs as they did with CD-Rs a long time ago.

And yet…
http://www.meritline.com/verbatim-52x-cdr-media-white-thermal-printable-94949---p-18228.aspx

Just don’t expect to buy high quality products at a big box store. This is nothing new.


#17

[QUOTE=Lenny_Nero;2511704]Any proof of this, a cite, or link …or is it just something you feel ?

I get thru a lot of MCC because of work (and if it (AZO) stops I dont know what we are going to do) and when I find a really good batch/box I have a 100 odd for my self to keep back for 3x3 burns of stuff that cant be lost.

As such I have some (well, quite a lot …as I look round at the two 600 boxes full of it) that are 5 plus years old and I have never seen an “unrecoverable read error” ever, which I take it you mean a POF, because if you are just talking about PIF errors then all media has them from day one.[/QUOTE]

YES, I actually have LOST DATA from a dvd disc… and not just to scratches and physical damage to a disc… and not JUST a crappy re-tread dye from generic brand, our beloved verbatims.

Here’s a link that generally talks about CD-Rs but the same apparent premise applies to DVD-Rs as well. You see, the technology had to EXIST in the mass market for that amount of time for the real-world wear to acutally show-up… so I’ve experienced this in real life when I was converting my cd-r collection to dvd-rs (thus SAVING valuable shelf space) any disc that was over 3 years old had a 50% or greater chance of being UNRECOVERABLE. These discs (for the most part) sat on a shelf in a disc binder case or in a spindle untouched until it was too late. Lucky, the data wasn’t important, however that leads me to make backups of things I’d like to keep a hold of a little longer. Most people began getting dvd recordable drives around 2002-2004 so the earliest discs are over 5 years old & that does not bode well if the premise about lifespans of discs is only SLIGHTLY better for dvds… putting the dye layer in-between two plastic surfaces does add a measure of protection, but only as good as the disc was sealed at the edges… if even the slighest moisture gets into the layer (over time) the process of decay will be rather quick (months) relatively speaking. I’ve also found out the hard way what they say about sun exposure as well is true.

The way I look at it is, a safe method is to keep copies of IMPORTANT DATA separate from your main “collection” both in plain sight (so you remember) and another locked away… then once every few years, recover the data & reburn them to keep a good copy fresh. After two-three copies the oldest ones can be destroyed and/or discarded if they no longer work. I have old analog vhs cassettes over 20 years which work as NEW, and yet cd-r media hasn’t standed the test of time… dvds might only be safer by a couple of years more… that said… I need to go through my collection to find my important data & buy some taiyo yudens. Then I’ll begin the experiement to see just how good the discs are, though I bet some of you may already know if one has failed due to degrading of the dye layer by now…


#18

Could you show us the scans of this lost data from Verbatim media.

As I said I have never seen a POF from any of my media, and even though I have been a Verbatim user for many years (my floppys were Verbatim media and still working fine), I had got the odd duff brand a few times, but most still work ok. I have been going thru some older media from 2000~2002 the Verb and TY media are as good as the day burnt, only with a higher number of PI errors, which I expect because of use.

…and I had thought that you meant unburnt media over two years old had a greater chance of going bad, but you seen to think that 2 year old burnt Verb media has a 1 in 2 chance of not working, [B]well I have landed heads in over 12,000 burns[/B], and I think DrageMester said it best, you dont have verbatim media, or you keep your media in the street.

That link says its better to use tape as it last longer, it has no cites and TBH is BS, and says…

[B]“If you want to avoid having to burn new CDs every few years, use magnetic tapes to store all your pictures, videos and songs for a lifetime.”[/B]


#19

Soon no more Azo for regular Verbs? :eek:
Doh. :doh:

Modern economics. It’s a pain in the a** in so many ways. :Z

Ahhh, Verbatim… as people who used to know me (in the days when I was spamming this this board everyday :p) will probably remember, I have been bickering about the softness of TYG02’s surface (T02 was fine in my view), and consistently advocated MCC discs as a better alternative: I considered (and still do) that acceptable scratch resistance is an important aspect of a disc’s quality.

These days are officially over, MCC004’s surface is just as soft now, if not softer, than TYG02 was. I’m not comparing pears and apples: I have been getting only CMC-made printable MCC004 for the last three years. The newer discs (produced since ~Q3 2009 I’d say) still burn great, but the polycarbonate is as easy to scratch as butter (not to be taken literally of course).

Now if they drop AZO par dessus le marché, it’s 100% clear that my long-time companionship with the regular Verbatims will be over…


#20

@[B]tmc8080[/B]: We are VERY well aware on this board that a fair amount of DVD+/-R discs can go bad easily. (RITEK G05 / G04 anyone? :p)

As I understand it, Lenny’s question to you was specifically about AZO-based discs under the Verbatim brand, not DVD+/-R in general. So, do you actually have some personal experience of AZO-based Verbatim discs going bad is the question, I guess.