Technical Question

I am looking for some experts here. I tried to backup Mindhunters R2 PAL UK/Ireland today with AnyDVD 5.5.1.1 and CloneDVD2 2.8.5.1 - it got most of the way through and then just started getting loads of errors in VTS_01.3.VOB As I was getting fed up clicking retry, I decided to get DVDDecryper in conjunction AnyDVD to rip the movie to my hard drive. (Using Elby CDIO). Got the the same VOB and loads and loads of retries and eventullay read errors.

I then tried switching DVDDecrypter to Patin-Couffin I/O and for the hell of it got DVDDecryper to check for structure protection as well (yes I know you are not meant to do this while AnyDVD is running) - It worked like a dream.

I then turned off DVDD looking for structure protection, still using Patin-Couffin and then read errors returned!!

I doubled check again with ElbyCDIO and SPTI and all had read errors regadless if I got DVDD to look for structure protection or not.

So my question is what is the difference between Patin-Couffin, ElbyCDIO & SPTI and why can I only get this movie to rip with Patin-Couffin?

I am willing to accept any answer to this, be it my writer, mastering errors on the original or just that my system is screwed!!

Oh and it is one of Sony’s lovley orange AccrOS protected discs!!

@ abrown15,

Somewhere in the Forum you question has been asked before.

Either our old friend Olli or the knowledgeable Forum Member Tru answered this question.

Perchance you could do a Forum ‘Search’ or possibly either Olli or Forum Member Tru could respond and provide the answer.

Best Regards,
bjkg

Hi :slight_smile:
Try here
post # 10 >
This works for most if not all.
Surprised 5.5.1.1. didn’t do it for you. Still early days.

@abrown
Don’t think this will answer your question regarding Patin-Couffin, but does make for some interesting reading with the views of some very highly respected software developers. Some of Olli’s comments were quite amusing.

Scroll down to post 10 to begin
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=77037&highlight=ElbyCDIO

ElbyCDIO is the most robust I/O model to use. You can use it with or without AnyDVD. AnyDVD works with all other I/O models you mentioned as well (Patin Coffin, SPTI).
ElbyCDIO is just an I/O method like the others. It existed years before AnyDVD was released (someone remembers CloneCD?), and LIGHTNING UK was wise to use it.
You can enable Structure Protection in DVDD with ElbyCDIO as well.
If you see no read errors if you do this, and AnyDVD is enabled and working properly, you should infrom SlySoft. Send them IFOs (with AnyDVD disabled), they’ll take care of it.

Nice Post Tru

Lightening UK is a very bright man, I think we’ll hear from him again.

Just a quick update - sent the IFO’s off last night to Slysoft/Elby - James had replied by this morning!! Looking at the IFO’s the only read errors are in VTS_01_1.VOB. He suggested that it is mastering errors in the disc.

I mean come on - a respected company like Sony have mastering errors on their discs - never… (look hard for the sarcasam here!!)

I was trying again this morning - and using the Patin Couffin may have been a fluke - it now has loads of read errors - I suspect also that my drive just doesn’t like was ARccOS is doing to it.

To be on the safe side, I will return the disc today and get a replacement and give it another go.

I also gave DVD FABDecrypter a go, just to see what all the fuss was about, as some people say it will copy anything - seems to me all it was doing was constantly rereading the errors - as it doesn’t give you any information on what it is doing you don’t know how many read errors it has just ignored. (At least DVD Decrypter will give you all that information!)

My understanding from an acquaintance that works for Sony, they are no longer the company we once knew them to be, considered a quality product.
Some people still buy on brand name alone but will soon come to realize the quality has degraded. Just look at the burners under the Sony name are made by Liteon, then they jack up the price, all you are getting is the Liteon with the higher price tag. Made in China and not Japan as we would expect. I own a Liteon and it’s a good burner but doesn’t warrant the price tag Sony demands.
They too outsource their CS support to India. No disrespect to China or India but I expect to receive a product I paid good money for and get high quality and support that understands me when I ask for help.

Mundhunters R2 PAL is absolutely “backupable”, even with earlier versions of AnyDVD and CloneDVD2. If it is not, then it can be only a mastering error, that happen, though it would seem unbelievable.
Had similar experience with another DVD. It had a mastering error, the whole series, so it was useless to change it in the shop as the replacement had the same error.

Careful, R2 != R2. You always need to specify the country. There are often many different versions in different countries.
Further, there seems to be a misconception what a mastering error is.
A mastering error happens during the mastering process, when the contents of the DVD is prepared. The result is a defect - mostly a structural defect - on all DVDs of a specific title.
A lot of people say “mastering defect”, but they actually mean a production defect, e.g. a little dirt or an air bubble causing a read error.

Thanks for clarifying the proper descritpion of errors.
I think many of the problems we encounter are due to production defects that is why some are able to copy and others are not.

I don’t recall a single title that we were not able to copy even if it had a mastering error. Is it safe to state that AnyDVD is able to correct some of these mastering errors?

What a cracking post - much better than the usual I can’t copy a film, how do I copy PS2 games or I have downloaded a game/movie how do I burn it!! It is nice when these “Behemoths” such as Olli and Lightning share their thinking and knowlegde with us mear mortals.

Yea, I agree…I must have missed that post when it was first created but looking through it that was a really kuel conversation.

I would say so. Both the AnyDVD and the elby CloneDVD revision histories are full of “workaround for mastering errors”.
If have copied & pasted all mentioned “mastering error” changes from the revision histories here. Maybe there were more changes which aren’t documented, or I have overlooked one.

CloneDVD:

Change: Removed check for invalid filesize (fixes problem with file size mastering errors, e.g. “The Grudge” R1, US).

- Fix: Error Message “Module 1 vobproperties.cpp 62 TCE” (e.g., “Alien Resurrection” R2, German)

new: workaround for NavigationPack 6 mastering error

new: workaround for invalid angle destination mastering

AnyDVD:

  • New: Added functionality to remove invalid VOBUs from a
    title set to the option to remove “Protection based on
    unreadable Sectors”. This fixes the error message “Out
    of memory” from DVDShrink with some DVDs, which suffer
    from a certain mastering error.
  • Fix: The option to remove “Protection based on unreadable
    Sectors” could cause DVDShrink to abort with an “invalid
    Navigation structure” error with some DVDs, which suffer
    from a certain mastering error.
  • New: Workaround for another mastering error.
    This fixes problems with “Wrestlemania 3” (UK)
  • New: Workaround for problems with incorrectly mastered DVDs like
    “Jim Knopf und Lucas, der Lokomotivführer”, “Urmel aus dem Eis”
    and “Peter Finzel Test Disc V2”
  • New: Workaround for DVDs with CSS Mastering errors
    (e.g., “Once Upon a Time in Mexico” R2, German)
    Although we know of no other titles, it is possible,
    that other DVDs have a similar mastering error,
    and that they will work now as well.

Let me clarify two points:

  1. Concerning R2: we have been talking about a DVD that is on the market for some time, i.e. not a new one. In this case it is evident that R2 plus country reference has no major effect from the point of view of the latest (5.5.1.1.) AnyDVD’s “abilities” (protection type-software version co-relation). I hope the logic is clear.

  2. I was refering to “mastering error” as my example plastically reflected it. I very much hope it is also evident after this clarification.

You might be right, but it doesn’t hurt to always add the country when talking about R2 titles for reference.

Sure! I was actually referring to this post, sorry if I didn’t quote correctly:

I believe James meant a “production error”, as a “mastering error” would have been visible in the IFOs he received from abrown15, right?

No prob. Just clarified my points. :wink:

Darn you Tru!! You reading my emails? Yes, okay, I paraphrased James, and I errmmm, got it slightly wrong - what he said was…

According to the IFOs the read errors should only be in VTS_01_1.VOB. VTS_01_3.VOB is in the middle of the movie, I doubt that Sony places read errors there intentionally.

I believe, there is a read error in file VTS_01_3.VOB due to a defective disc, a scratch, or a misaligned drive.

So yes, I take it he meant a production error rather than a mastering error. The disc looks flawless, and my drive reads and writes no problem (well according to K-Probe) so I guess that means a defective disc. This is a first for me - never had a defectice disc before - must have been lucky I guess.

Thanks for all the people who gave some input into this!!

In the end a sucessful backup was made using AnyDVD & DVDDecrypter (with lots and lots of retries) to rip and CloneDVD2 to burn the disc.