Teac W524 Bad Writing Quality

vbimport

#1

Hi,

i seem to have killed my second Teac Drive within 3 months,
so I´m a little bit about that.

General Information:
Epox 8Kta3+, Athlon TB1200, 512 MB, Win2kSP2, all drivers up to date exc. Aspi 4.60(1021), Px 40tsi, CDW-524, SDM1612, blah blah..
Anything worked fine with my first drive from Dec 2001 writing Audio CD-R using Mitsui Gold ultra thermal 16x. Because I´m a little paranoid, I do a C2-Scan of every CD-R i burned. And suddenly, in February, after I had burned round about 100 CD-R, my writer produced C2-Errors on every CD-R. Tested the media and the system with different writer, all no probs, so the Teac seemed to be the problem. RMA, got new one including 5 CD-R from Teac (thanx!). Anything worked fine again. But now, after another 100 burned CD-R, i have the same problem. Again C2-Errors.

BTW: I don´t use the writer as a football and I don´t put my coffee cup on it :wink:, but this can IMHO only mean either a problem of the Quality of the Teac drives (unlikely) or a problem of my handling.

Thank you very much.


#2

With which software do you check for C2 Errors ?

Do you check with TEAC or with another reader ?

Did you try checking the same CD with another reader ?


#3

Sorry, forgot to post that.

I usually check a CD-R with readcd-C2scan of the CDR-Tools by J.S. under win2k, now used as a reader Plex 40 tsi and to verify a Toshiba SDM 1612, which to me is even more sensitive than the Plex. Both showed errors in similar sector regions, even though the SDM showed more, as expected. With my Liteon 40125W i did not recognize errors, but thats´s typical IMHO, becaus it´s a “better” reader. With SDM round about 2000 C2s and 3 Sectors with more than 100 :frowning:

Seems like the writing quality of my damaged Teac with Mitsui ist still better than a new one with Gigast0rage:)


#4

I made a few checks today…

you are almost right.

What I noticed is that it depends on MEDIA.

With LOUSY TECHNO CD-R80 (1x,2x,4x,6x certified), I write at 20x without a single C2 error detected by any reader.

With good PLATINUM 80min (1x-40x certified) I got C2 errors always in the same zones (the first after 1 minute, the second after almost 30 minutes).

Conclusion:
I think this drive is too new to have some good results in checking.

Maybe the next firmware upgrades will solve this…it just sounds like media incompatibility… if you think about LITEON 40x, it can write one media over 10 :slight_smile:


#5

Correction:

I checked the GOOD media:

I have 24 C2 errors at:

02:00
24:00
47:00

If you check these are exactky the MINUTES where the writer CHANGES speed when recording at 40x.

Infact writing at 20x (CAV) or 16x (CAV) there are NO C2 errors at all.

I have not checked it but I am sure there are 24 C2 errors everytime the BURNPROOF comes in action.

That’s completely NORMAL.


#6

Zibri: C1C2 was talking about Teac W524, not W540 !!

C1C2: I burned about 500-600 CD’s with Teac W524E and didn’t have any problems with it. All the burns where very good (except some with very bad media)


#7

To Zibri: BurnProof is IMO no reason for C2-Errors, because the links caused by that can´t be recognized by the error correction, especially the lateC2 Correction., they are, depending on the writer, smaller than 5 micrometer. Concerning yor check, i think the media can´t be burned at high speed, that´s the prob?

With the TEAC 524 I do the Audio-Mastering just at 16x, because I don´t like any links on an audiotrack. I forgot to mention that, sorry.

To Hawkie: OK. So I still have a special problem…:confused: . I just got a new system, new mainboard etc, so I´ll have a try when i get that drive back…

You do C2-Scans?


#8

To C1C2:

To Zibri: BurnProof is IMO no reason for C2-Errors, because the links caused by that can´t be recognized by the error correction, especially the lateC2 Correction., they are, depending on the writer, smaller than 5 micrometer. Concerning yor check, i think the media can´t be burned at high speed, that´s the prob?

Hmm… no, I don’t agree: 24 C2 Errors are nothing. Even the lousiest reader is not bothered by those. My Media are 40x certified.
[B]

With the TEAC 524 I do the Audio-Mastering just at 16x, because I don´t like any links on an audiotrack. I forgot to mention that, sorry.[/B]

[B]Yes, I also do my audiomastering at 20x (CAV) to avoid speed changes,links and small C2 errors.

By the way, to make the check I use my laptop (equipped with a TOSHIBA DVD SD2502) who seems to be more sensible when reading than my TEAC writer, My TEAC 32x Reader and my PIONEER DVD player.

Those C2 errors I get at speed changes are almost undetectable by any GOOD reader.[/B]


#9

To Zibri, you wrote:

Hmm… no, I don’t agree: 24 C2 Errors are nothing. Even the lousiest reader is not bothered by those. My Media are 40x certified.

24 Errors are 24 Errors, 0 Errors are nothing. What your media is certified for doesn´t matter. I got e.g. TY-Media 24x certified, they can be burned up to 40x P-CAV (Liteon 40125W), not any C2 Error with the PX40.
24 errors aren´t that much, for sure you´re right with that. But I think that´s what you wanted to say? BTW I hope, you are not talking about Platinum 40x…

Those C2 errors I get at speed changes are almost undetectable by any GOOD reader.

ACK. The C2-Rate is tight related to the reader. The PX40 is very sensitive, with the liteon I get (as posted) no C2 error pointers.
But my special aim is to achieve no C2-pointers with the PX40, cause then I know, I´ve got a HQ-CD for archival use.
Please believe me, you shouldn´t get any Errors just caused by the speed changes in z-cav. The links caused by burnproof, justlink etc. are much too small to be recognized by the error correction on the C2 level. If you get errors there when you get no errors without the speed changes, you got a problem with the media, the writer, the combination of both or the reader is damaged. That´s why it´s so hard to find the error…


#10

24 Errors are 24 Errors, 0 Errors are nothing. What your media is certified for doesn´t matter. I got e.g. TY-Media 24x certified, they can be burned up to 40x P-CAV (Liteon 40125W), not any C2 Error with the PX40.
24 errors aren´t that much, for sure you´re right with that. But I think that´s what you wanted to say? BTW I hope, you are not talking about Platinum 40x…

Yes I am talking about Platinum 40x.
Here is the ATIP:
ATIP info from disk - Read by Feurio 1.65
Recorder: TEAC - CD-W540E
ATIP start of lead in: -02:44:58 (sector: -12358)
ATIP start of lead out: 79:59:73 (sector: 359998)
Manufacturer code: 97 15 17 - Ritek Co. (Type: 7)
Reference speed: -
Minimum recording speed: -
Maximum recording speed: -
Unrestriced use: No
Disc type: Not Rewriteable
Disc subtype: Medium Type A, low Beta category (A-)
Target writing power: 4
Power multiplication factor:-
Target y value: -
Erase/writer power ratio:

ACK. The C2-Rate is tight related to the reader. The PX40 is very sensitive, with the liteon I get (as posted) no C2 error pointers.
But my special aim is to achieve no C2-pointers with the PX40, cause then I know, I´ve got a HQ-CD for archival use.
Please believe me, you shouldn´t get any Errors just caused by the speed changes in z-cav. The links caused by burnproof, justlink etc. are much too small to be recognized by the error correction on the C2 level. If you get errors there when you get no errors without the speed changes, you got a problem with the media, the writer, the combination of both or the reader is damaged. That´s why it´s so hard to find the error…

So, How can you explain that:

  1. I get no errors reading the disc with good readers.

  2. I get C2 errors reading with my most sensitive reader (toshiba sd2502 dvd)

  3. The C2 errors detected by the toshiba dvd are EXACTLY at the same spots where the writer changed the speed.

P.S
If I would have got random c2 errors or anywhere else on the disc I would agree with you.
The strange thing is that i get those small errors (not detectable by teac or pioneer drives) exactly at speed change marks.
If you leave me your e-mail I can send you the pictures :slight_smile:
BTW, it was Z-CLV and not Z-CAV (i think it was just a typo for P-CAV or Z-CLV) :slight_smile:


#11

Hi again,

Manufacturer code: 97 15 17 - Ritek Co. (Type: 7)

…is definetly low quality media. I wouldn´t worry, if I got bad results using media by this manufacturer.

  1. I get no errors reading the disc with good readers.

I already explained that fact. C2 IMHO means that a specific reader couldn´t read at specific conditions. Even two C2 scans with the same reader show often different results.

  1. I get C2 errors reading with my most sensitive reader (toshiba sd2502 dvd)

That drive just don´t likes bad writing quality, that´s all. Good drive to test writing quality :wink:

  1. The C2 errors detected by the toshiba dvd are EXACTLY at the same spots where the writer changed the speed.

So my conclusion is that your writer has got problems to keep writing quality high at the regions of speed change using that kind of media. Do you have C2-Errors using HQ-Media like Taiyo Yuden, Mitsui or maybe Mitsubishi, too? That was really interesting to me. How do you do the scans (Software)?

BTW, it was Z-CLV and not Z-CAV (i think it was just a typo for P-CAV or Z-CLV)

ACK. I always jumble that… :bigsmile:


#12

I do the scans with the lousy NERO CD SPEED.
I could not find any better software.

But that shitty software on my laptop it’s worth a hardware check :slight_smile:


#13

I made some check on a few CD-RW I have.
My TEAC seems UNABLE to write an AUDIO CD at 10x on a 10x certified CD-RW.
At 4x the cd is readable but it has LOTS of C2 errors from the 50 minutes to 80minutes.
From 60 MIN to 77 min the cd is almost completely unreadable (more than 100.000 C2 errors for every sector).

What’s going on ?

My CD-RW is: INTENSO CD RW 80min/700Mb 4x-10x

Here is the ATIP:

ATIP info from disk - Read by Feurio 1.65
Recorder: TEAC - CD-W540E
ATIP start of lead in: -02:32:71 (sector: -11471)
ATIP start of lead out: 79:59:74 (sector: 359999)
Manufacturer code: 97 27 04 - Digital Storage Technologoy Co.,ltd (Type: 3)
Reference speed: 6
Minimum recording speed: 4
Maximum recording speed: 10
Unrestriced use: No
Disc type: Rewriteable
Disc subtype: High-Speed CD-RW
Target writing power: 3
Power multiplication factor:1
Target y value: 5
Erase/writer power ratio: 5


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