Has anyone used "CDR-By-Mail" for CDs/DVDs?
This is a report on a situation that has arisen with this "organization"...
I would just like to point out that i am not bitter or angry at CDR-By-Mail or Genesys DTP or anything like that but simply posting this as i told them i would as a matter of fact and i think the online disc buying community should be informed of this. Read it if you wish. Delete it if you wish. Feel free to leave any (intelligent) comments if you wish.
First of all i visit most of these forums/websites regularly and i am not just a "lurker". I have many years experience with computers and a pretty decent general knowledge of technology in general. Networking, programming and security/cryptography are my main computer interests... CD/DVD writing is more of a necessity but i think i know enough about this field of computing to compare to many who would call themselves an enthusiast although certainly not as much as the "gurus" in these forums.
To summarize: I ordered 200 Taiyo Yuden CDs to use with my Liteon 52327. I sent my (cash) payment to CDR-By-Mail by Royal Mail Special Delivery Next Day. I tried to contact them several times. They did not reply. I went back to the place that suggested using them, Genesys DTP, (CDR-By-Mail's USA distributor) and contacted them. This prompted CDR-By-Mail to contact me once more informing me that they have been Burgled. Although Genesys DTP has been helpful and responsive they have from the start continued to try and disassociate themselves with CDR-By-Mail and my Order.
Email to Genesys DTP Sun, 4 Apr 2004 22:09:51 GMT:
"I came across your site "http://www.genesysdtp.com"
while i was looking for the more rare CDs/DVDs such as
Taiyo Yudens etc.
I import a lot of goods from overseas (particularly
from Japan and USA) and after reading all the (good)
customer feedback on your company (more specifically
on "Genesys DTP") i decided to consider using you as
my primary supplier for CDs/DVDs for personal use.
Because of your good customer feedback and based on
the promises made on both of your websites i decided
to take your suggestion and "Check out your UK
distributor CDR-By-Mail" with every intention of using
them as my main supplier."
Reply from Genesys DTP (SecondsOut @ aol.com) Sun, 4 Apr 2004 17:25:07 EDT:
"CDR-By-Mail is an independent company. Other than supplying them
with some of their media that they sell, there is no other business
relationship between Genesys DTP and CDR-By-Mail."
Email to Genesys DTP Thu, 8 Apr 2004 20:52:32 GMT:
"To what extent is CDR-By-Mail independent of Genesys
DTP? If you had a dog would you consider it to be
independent? It certainly thinks for itself while it
decides for example to do it's "business" in the patio
or starting playing around with a hornets nest but you
still have to feed it every so often.
It seems CDR-By-Mail is neither self reliant as far as
(disc) supplies and Genesys DTP is concerned (which is
what both sites essentially sell) nor do CDR-By-Mail
seem to be independent of Genesys DTP from the way
Genesys DTP and CDR-By-Mail refer to each other and if
you were to claim that CDR-By-Mail was merely an
affiliate of Genesys DTP that would also seem to be an
My decision to "Check out Genesys DTP's UK distributor
CDR-By-Mail" was based on the good customer feedback
of Genesys DTP and the same promises made on both
websites as well as the fact that everyone i spoke to
told me that Genesys DTP refer to CDR-By-Mail as their
"Sister site". As i have also already pointed out, I
found the website of Genesys DTP first and it was (and
still is) under the Company Info page on the website
of Genesys DTP and at Genesys DTP's suggestion again
on that same page that i decided to "Check out" what
Genesys DTP calls "their UK distributor" using the URL
in link provided on the Company Info page of the
Genesys DTP website which leads to CDR-By-Mail.
If you buy the same computer from www.dell.co.uk and
from www.dell.com are you buying from 2 different
Reply from Genesys DTP (SecondsOut @ aol.com) Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:12:13 EDT:
"Sorry to hear you're still having problems. Without getting into details,
as I've said, these are two independent companies, which have a business
relationship, and since we're in two different countries, we refer clients
to one another. To answer your question, maybe this will make more sense:
If CDR-By-Mail were located in the United States, they'd be my
competition, and we would not enjoy the same business relationship."
Email to Genesys DTP Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:17:56 GMT:
"ps i would have thought any professional salesman
worth the computer they are sitting at would consider
their very co-workers sitting right next to them as
competition despite working for the same company?
I can only describe the Situation in the context it
was originally presented to me which is that:
Genesys DTP not only link to and recommends
CDR-By-Mail but supply CDR-By-Mail with "some of"
their stock both online stores primarily selling CD
and DVD media. Each refer to each other as "sister
sites" and Genesys DTP refers to CDR-By-Mail as their
"UK distributer" which is what is written on the
Company Info page of the Genesys DTP website."
Reply from Genesys DTP (SecondsOut @ aol.com) Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:11:53 EDT:
"To put it another way, for example, if I buy products for resale from, say
Verbatim, and Verbatim was to list Genesys DTP on their retail web store
as "where to buy Verbatim products", then would you consider Verbatim and
Genesys DTP to be the same company? No, Genesys DTP would be a "US
distributor" of Verbatim products."
"Any problems concerning delivery, e-mails, tracking info, communication,
etc. is beyond the scope of what I can do to help. I have no input, say,
control, etc. in how CDR-By-Mail communicates with their customers or runs
I say fair enough on the second point, but the other comment taken on it's own would have you believe Genesys DTP and CDR-By-Mail has no relationship of any sort whatsoever which is not the case based on what Genesys DTP has already admitted.
Verbatim is a Brand Name. Verbatim manufactures discs. CDR-By-Mail & Genesys DTP sell Discs.
At no point has Genesys DTP specifically mentioned anything about "reselling" the discs to CDR-By-Mail and CDR-By-Mail is the only place "listed" on the Genesys DTP website.
In the context of Genesys DTP & CDR-By-Mail, in the example given and depending on how Genesys DTP was "listed", Verbatim and Genesys DTP would not be the same company but would be part of the same organization loosely speaking since there would almost definitely be royalties involved, and Genesys DTP does not refer to CDR-By-Mail as "a UK distributor" but as "our UK distributor" and not under any "where to buy Genesys DTP products" page but under the CompanyInfo_ page --- which is filled from top to bottom with almost everything you would want to know about the Company and nothing else.
The only distinctions as far as i can tell that can be made between Genesys DTP and CDR-By-Mail based on the information that was made available is that Genesys DTP targets customers from the USA and CDR-By-Mail targets Europe and each has a different domain.
Maybe Genesys DTP and CDR-By-Mail are not the same company, but it would be easy to come to the conclusion that they are prior to purchasing, only to have them try to persuade you that they are not when things go wrong on one side, and at this stage it is obvious they have a closer "business relationship" than they make out...
I wanted to pay by cash so i asked if that would be ok.
Reply from CDR-By-Mail (anne @ cdr-by-mail.co.uk) Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:45:48 -0000:
As you are happy to send them by special delivery so
that the money is
insured in the post we are happy to receive payments
in cash from you.
Please complete your order in the usual way at our
store and select the
option to send your payment through the mail. You
then send the
us and we will send your order to you on receipt."
Sent cash. Waited.
At this point i had received no goods,
i didn't know the Status of the Order
or whether or not it had been dispatched
or processed, I had not received any
acknowledgement to confirm the money had been
received, and i had basically received absolutely no
communication from CDR-By-Mail whatsoever despite
several attempts to contact them.
The website indicated the items were in stock (or at least not out of stock) when i ordered and has indicated this since then.
My first email to CDR-By-Mail concerning the Order was on 25/03/2004. Due to their delay in responding, the Order was placed on Saturday 27/03/2004 and CDR-By-Mail received payment (which i sent by Next Day Royal Mail Special delivery) on 30/03/2004.
Despite several attempts to contact CDR-By-Mail they did not respond at which point i contacted Genesys DTP.
CDR-By-Mail then replied with the last email i have in fact received from them so far:
CDR-By-Mail (sales @ cdr-by-mail.co.uk) Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:47:10 +0100:
"Your order has not yet been dispatched out to you due to our work
being broken in to during last weekend (28th March). We are expecting
of the Taiyo Yuden media to be delivered to us this Wednesday or
and as soon as we receive this media we will issue your order out to
Wednesday and Thursday had come and gone with no Delivery or email to confirm dispatch.
Email to CDR-By-Mail Thu, 8 Apr 2004 20:54:54 GMT:
"For the Record, and before i ask them myself, which
Police Station was the Burglary Reported to and when
was it reported and who reported it, who was it
reported to and how was it reported?"
"I assume for any "computers" that were "stolen"
CDR-By-Mail has given the Police the MAC addresses
(network cards) and Serial Numbers of the hard disk
drives etc which programmers often use for software
licensing and which can be used for computer
Identification. What are these numbers?"
The Burglary was supposed to have taken place on Sunday 28/03/2004 according to CDR-By-Mail.
I asked CDR-By-Mail if the "work unit" that was "Burgled" has the same
address as the address on the index page of
I asked CDR-By-Mail if they received a
batch of "the Taiyo Yuden media" on Thursday
01/04/2004 (after the Burglary) as CDR-By-Mail's
website indicates "deliveries normally made to us
weekly each Thursday."
I asked if CDR-By-Mail's USA distributer, Genesys DTP was the
sender of "the Taiyo Yuden media"?
I asked CDR-By-Mail and Genesys DTP which Police Station the Burglary was reported to and i even gave them a list of all the Police Stations in the area (Colchester, Essex) according to the Official Essex Police Website.
I have not received any replies to these questions except from Genesys DTP:
Genesys DTP (SecondsOut @ aol.com) Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:12:13 EDT:
"Sorry, I have no info as to the specifics of this."
At this exact time (12/04/2004 1900 GMT) I have received a total of 3 emails from "CDR-By-Mail":
The first from "anne @ cdr-by-mail.co.uk" dated "Fri, 26
Mar 2004 15:45:48 -0000" was received by me on
Saturday 27/03/2004 between 1200 and 1400 GMT due to
what i can only deduce is a problem with their email
server and this problem already existed before the "Burglary".
The second from "sales @ cdr-by-mail.co.uk" dated "Sat,
27 Mar 2004 16:58:10 +0000 (GMT)" was the Automated Website
Order Confirmation email and was received by me
The third from "sales @ cdr-by-mail.co.uk" dated "Mon, 5
Apr 2004 12:47:10 +0100" was received by me immediately.
Genesys DTP contacted me.
Genesys DTP (SecondsOut @ aol.com) Thu, 8 Apr 2004 21:31:24 EDT:
"Matt at CDR-By-Mail tells me that he has replied to you again, with status of your order and shipping info"
Email to Genesys DTP Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:17:56 GMT:
"I hope you, (or Mr Matt *******) is not refering to
CDR-By-Mail's email to me dated 05/04/2004 which would
also arguably qualify as a "reply" with the "status"
of my Order (out of stock) and "shipping info" (how it
will be shipped when and if it ships)
If this is the case, this amounts to no reply from
CDR-By-Mail, no dispatch and no delivery. And your
replies amount to you telling me what he has told you
he has done (which he hasn't) and an offering of more
Considering the 1st email of 3 was from
"anne @ cdr-by-mail.co.uk" and the second was automated,
email 3 of 3 from CDR-By-Mail (dated 05/04/2004 which
i have already acknowledged receiving in my previous
email dated 08/04/2004) must have been from Mr Matt
******* if he has now replied "again" and i hope by
"shipping info" you mean to say that it has now in
fact actually shipped?"
Genesys DTP (SecondsOut @ aol.com) Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:11:53 EDT:
"Here's what Matt wrote to me last night.
"I sent a quick reply to that guy
though we have emailed him before.
I copied it to you so you could see
what I said. His stuff went out today.
I'll email him a reply to the other stuff
though the police told us to
keep quiet about how much we had lost
in case it gave anyone else ideas!!""
So according to Genesys DTP, Mr Matt ******* of CDR-By-Mail, is claiming that i am supposed to be in possession of 2 more emails (which i have not received).
Mr Matt ******* is then supposed to have sent a "copy" of the (second?) email to Genesys DTP (i have not been made aware of the content of this "copy" by Genesys DTP)
Mr Matt ******* then claims that my Order was dispatched...
Genesys DTP (SecondsOut @ aol.com) Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:12:13 EDT:
"I will be speaking with Matt ******* later this evening. I've forwarded a copy of your long e-mail to him. I would expect him to contact you by voice or e-mail later this evening or tomorrow."
Genesys DTP and Mr Matt ******* must have made contact with each other between 16:12:13 and 21:31:24 EDT on 08/04/2004 (Genesys DTP local time) which would be between 21:12:13 and 02:31:24 GMT (CDR-By-Mail local time).
Mr Matt ******* would have also replied to me supposedly between these times. Because i don't put much weight in what CDR-By-Mail claims due to prior broken promises, if you were to look at things literally, "His stuff went out today" could also mean early Friday 09/04/2004 (GMT) instead of late Thursday 08/04/2004 (EDT) if they contacted each other after 2400 GMT (1900 EDT)
Shipping is supposed to be "1-2 Working Days (Interlink Express)". The Order was supposed to have been dispatched on Thursday 08/04/2004. It is Monday 12/04/2004 (a bank holiday) today and I have not received the Order yet, now 3 weeks after my first email to CDR-By-Mail concerning the Order.
Mr Matt ******* then points out that he will send me a further email to answer my other enquiries regarding the "Burglary" of CDR-By-Mail (which was supposed to be, according to CDR-By-Mail, the reason for all these complications with my Order in the first place).
This "3rd email" from Mr Matt ******* would bring the total number of emails received from CDR-By-Mail (according to CDR-By-Mail) to "6".
I have received no such email.
This leaves me with a total of 3 emails from CDR-By-Mail as already mentioned.
It is extremely unlikely that the emails sent from CDR-By-Mail (Mr Matt *******) are being delayed (lag) for this
amount of time or blocked completely and this does also not explain the lack of a delivery for this amount of time.
As already mentioned, i have not been given a Tracking Number for the package either.
I have now spent 3 weeks waiting for this small and simple
Order, with very little Communication regarding
it's Status and at least 2 broken Promises from
CDR-By-Mail from the only 2 non automated
communications i have received from them.
As far as i'm concerned there is a possibility that
this is a case of Fraud on the part of CDR-By-Mail.
I am still waiting to receive my Order and answers to my questions.
Will update when/if i receive a delivery/explanation.
This is unfortunately only one of Several other Transactions i have had any Issues with right now.
Alternative United Kingdom unbranded TY suppliers NONE of which i have used but was considering using:
If you are considering using an online store that is prone to burglaries you'd better hope that the men in the black & white stripy t-shirts aren't hanging around outside it and that they don't steal one of the computers with all of your unencrypted personal information on it