Taiyo Yuden DVDs: Why do media sold as "8x" only burn at 4x?

[Lovegasoline]

A question about Taiyo Yuden DVDs.
I'm a newbie, and this is actually my first time burning DVDs.
I purchased a 100 pack as referenced by a Deal.mac listing:

http://dealmac.com/deals/DVD-Media-Roundup-Ritek-Ri-Data-G04-4-x-Mini-DVD-R-Media-10-Pack-for-0-after-rebate-more/118177.html

*SupermediaStore.com offers the Taiyo Yuden 8X DVD-R Media 100-Pack for $27.99 shipped free (ends 5/7);

I purchased this 100 DVD pack. It was listed on my receipt as:
Taiyo Yuden 8X DVD-R (Value Line) Silver Thermal in Tape Wrap 100 item #dvd01x0238

-The DVDs have the following codes written on them near the spindle hole:
13A107970GB LA6 - GD000321 - 0603

I’m new to burning DVDs. I purchased the Taiyo Yuden brand because of the positive reviews and recommendations.
I’m currently using Toast Platinum 6.0.1.
When I place one of these blank DVDs it only gives me the option of 2x or 4x to burn the DVD. I called Superrmediastore.com to confirm that these DVDs were the 8x not the 4x before my purchase. Does this burn behavior suggest that they sold me the 4x DVDs instead of the 8X/

FYI, this is the DVD drive info as copied from my System Profiler:

HL-DT-ST DVD-RW GWA-4165B:

Firmware Revision: C006
Interconnect: ATAPI
Burn Support: Yes (Apple Shipped/Supported)
Cache: 2048 KB
Reads DVD: Yes
CD-Write: -R, -RW
DVD-Write: -R, -RW, +R, +RW, +R DL
Burn Underrun Protection CD: Yes
Burn Underrun Protection DVD: Yes
Write Strategies: CD-TAO, CD-SAO, CD-Raw, DVD-DAO
Media: No

Any ideas what is going on here and why I can only burn these DVDs at 4x max?
Thanks.

[Arachne]

If you're absolutely positive these are 8x discs...have you tried a firmware update for your drive? I see it's an OEM drive, so I think you'd have to check with your PC manufacturer's site for one.

Other than that, there is the possibility that yes, these discs are 4x.

Pop one into the drive and run DVDIdentifier - then tell us the Media ID of the disc (should be TYG02 if they are indeed 8x).

Try the second option first, as a firmware update should be a last resort.

[JayC30]

The link you have posted links to a page showing G04s by Ritek, these are 4x discs. Pic attached is what I am seeing from that link. Here's the link edited so it isn't clickable:
hxxp://dealmac.com/deals/DVD-Media-Roundup-Ritek-Ri-Data-G04-4-x-Mini-DVD-R-Media-10-Pack-for-0-after-rebate-more/118177.html

[_buck]

Hrm. Taiyo Yuden recently rerated their value line media for 8X, from 4X, and as such SMS have started advertising TY value line media as 8X. I would have to presume that this 8X rating was meant for the 8X and 16X codes also found in value line, and that it was assumed nearly all the 4X TYG01 would be gone.

I think you're kind of out of luck as far burning at 8X. The good news is that you'll still get great quality at 4X.

[JayC30]

Sorry I see where you're leading to, my mistake.

buck it says they are premium and not value, therefore the rating change should not apply should it.

Can you use Nero CD-DVD speed to get the MID code of the disc?

Ither than that Arachnes comment on firmware may be the thing to try.

[_buck]

Sorry I see where you're leading to, my mistake.

buck it says they are premium and not value, therefore the rating change should not apply should it.

Can you use Nero CD-DVD speed to get the MID code of the disc?

Ither than that Arachnes comment on firmware may be the thing to try.

His invoice says "Taiyo Yuden 8X DVD-R (Value Line) Silver Thermal in Tape Wrap 100 item #dvd01x0238" so I think it's safe to say they're value line.

We can also tell that they're TYG01 because GD000321 corresponds to TY's 4X DVD-R.

[Arachne]

Ither than that Arachnes comment on firmware may be the thing to try.

Hehe, I'm hoping not...getting firmware for an OEM drive (the OP won't be able to get it from LG) could be a pain :eek:

Edit: missed the GD.... part - looks like they could be 4x after all!

[JayC30]

Now I am confused. May be a mix up in the order as the reference linked to in the link shows a page with multiple options and the only TYs there are listed as premium.

Love can you please link us directly to the page for the goods you are talking about to clarify.

[Big_Al1]

GDxxxxxx is x4 and GGxxxxxx is x8. If you paid for x8, then you need to receive GGxxxxxx.
Al

[_buck]

GDxxxxxx is x4 and GGxxxxxx is x8. If you paid for x8, then you need to receive GGxxxxxx.
Al

With value line TY being rerated, it's not that simple. Now, if it were Rima that you bought these from, you'd probably have a case, but good luck getting them exchanged with SMS.

You could always buy a drive that burns them at 8X

[Lovegasoline]

Thanks a bunch folks for all the rapid replies.
I'll save the firmware upgrade until I learn a bit more about the drive. Maybe I'll need to post on Apple's support site and see if this is a firmware issue and/or even if it isn't, if a firmware upgrade is advisable.

Specifically,

JayC30:
“Now I am confused. May be a mix up in the order as the reference linked to in the link shows a page with multiple options and the only TYs there are listed as premium. “

-The deal expired: the actual listing no longer exists at Supermedia.com; clicking on the deal.mac listing will only now bring you to another random unrelated page on their site.

Regarding DVDIdentifier and Nero CD-DVD speed software: are these Mac OSX compatible?

Buck wote:
“His invoice says "Taiyo Yuden 8X DVD-R (Value Line) Silver Thermal in Tape Wrap 100 item #dvd01x0238" so I think it's safe to say they're value line.”

Correct.
I had read some posts on this site and also(!) a couple buyers on Supermedia.com’s site had posted feedback reviews for that SPECIFIC ITEM which said they were sent 4x DVDs instead of the listed 8x … while others said they were shipped the 8x blanks. I wanted to be clear I was going to get the 8x so I called them ands specifically asked about the 4x vs. 8x AND verified that they were selling me the 8x discs before ordering!
I’ve never dealt with them so I cannot tell if this was an honest mistake, or if they were merely trying to take advantage a confusing TY I.D. system and naïve customers.

Buck also wote:
“We can also tell that they're TYG01 because GD000321 corresponds to TY's 4X DVD-R.”

If your info is correct, then they did indeed send me the 4x discs instead.

[Lovegasoline]

Can you please explain what this rerating business means?
I figured that this technology has some solid floor to walk on ... that there are methods of idenitifying what vendors are actually selling.
Is this GD vs. GG identifying code a reliable method of discerning 4x vs. 8x blanks?

[Arachne]

Can you please explain what this rerating business means?
I figured that this technology has some solid floor to walk on ... that there are methods of idenitifying what vendors are actually selling.
Is this GD vs. GG identifying code a reliable method of discerning 4x vs. 8x blanks?

Not only is the code a good way of distinguishing between 4x and 8x (can't remember offhand what the code is for 16x), it's also a good way of making sure you don't have fake TYs.

[_buck]

Can you please explain what this rerating business means?
I figured that this technology has some solid floor to walk on ... that there are methods of idenitifying what vendors are actually selling.
Is this GD vs. GG identifying code a reliable method of discerning 4x vs. 8x blanks?

Basically, all Taiyo Yuden value line has traditionally been sold as 4X. However, value line has been a mix of TYG01 (4X), TYG02 (8X), and TYG03 (16X), for quite some time. The thinking was that since it is a lower grade than premium line, it should be rated at a lower speed, regardless of what that particular code was designed for.

Very recently, TY officially decided to rate their value line media as 8X. This was likely due to the fact that TYG03 doesn't do very well at 4X, as 16X media certainly wasn't meant to be burned at 4X!! This is why SMS advertised this media as 8X.

TY 4X DVD-R = GD00xxxx
TY 8X DVD-R = GG00xxxx
TY 16X DVD-R = GH00xxxx

Now, as to why some people get 4X and others get 8X or 16X codes, it's because value line is mix of all of them. It's whatever TY puts in the packs. 4X TY should be pretty all gone by now... it's been out of production for what, 2+ years?

It's not likely that SMS is trying to scam customers, because they don't really know what they're shipping, either.

[Lovegasoline]

Ok Arachne, I'll go with that.
I'll contact Supermediastore.com and inform them that they shipped me the wrong time (either willfully or by mistake) and demand an exchange.
And/or I'll dispute the charge on my credit card.
I've become weary of poor mail order businesses and lackluster customer service.

So, who has a very good deal on the 8x TY DVDs?
Oh, and one other thing: can someone point me to a good, clear, and simple explanation of DVD GB sizes, recording speeds, and also types (Dual layer vs. single layer, etc)? As I wrote in my first post, other than watching DVD movies, I'm new to burning them and am pretty much clueless about regarding the various types of DVD and what they are primarily used for. I actually have no idea what types of DVDs my drive can burn.

Thanks a bunchy, again, for the informative posts folks! I didn't realize DVDs media were so complicated.

[Lovegasoline]

Buck:
Thanks for the detailed breakdown.

...and....

"It's not likely that SMS is trying to scam customers, because they don't really know what they're shipping, either."

Hmm. Seeing as they are a retailer specializing in recordable media, one WOULD expect them to know both what they are buying and sellling, no? Isn't that generally the way retailers work?

[Two_Degrees]

There isn't any way for SMS to know if TYG01, TYG02 or TYG03 being shipped as TY Value short of looking at every spindle for the stamper codes :rolleyes:

[Lovegasoline]

Well, if that's the case, they need to list them as 'pot luck' instead of as 8x and verifying on the phone that they are shipping 8x. It's an issue of being frank with your customers. Otherwise, they are being like Bush with his 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' and Al Quaeda 'evidence' used to promote the Iraq war.
If SMS cannot know the speed yet specifies the speed ANYWAY ... that's misinformation, selective information, deliberately wrong information, or downright deception.

[Lovegasoline]

Granted, the consequences of a prolonged war and a shipment of an incorrect 100 DVD pack are somewhat on different orders of magnitude... it's irksome nonetheless. I had to wait to receive the DVDs, expend all this effort to discern what in fact they DID sell me, and now I need to return them and wait for a replacement pack from SMS or another vendor ... big thumbs down Supermediastore :Z .
On the latter, can anyone recommend a RELIABLE vendor for TY 8x DVD media, one who knows what they sell and sells what they know (and are inexpensive )?
Thanks again.

[_buck]

Well, if that's the case, they need to list them as 'pot luck' instead of as 8x and verifying on the phone that they are shipping 8x. It's an issue of being frank with your customers. Otherwise, they are being like Bush with his 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' and Al Quaeda 'evidence' used to promote the Iraq war.
If SMS cannot know the speed yet specifies the speed ANYWAY ... that's misinformation, selective information, deliberately wrong information, or downright deception.

They're probably advertising the product just as it was sold to them. It would be nice if they would warn that 4X and 16X codes are also mixed in.