Taiyo Yuden CDRs 97m24s01f - need feedback about jitter

vbimport

#1

For background you can refer to this post, this post and this post.

All my TY CDRs are 97m24s01f (Plextor & unbranded). Thing is, with these discs I can’t achieve low jitter figures (I consider “low” as < 9% as reported by Benq 1650) in any of my burners unless I burn at very slow speeds, despite the fact that in my NEC 4550 and LG H22N, any other CDR (MBI, CMC, Ritek, whatever) can be burnt up to @40X with extremely low and constant jitter.

So, as at least MegaDETH can get great jitter figures from @40X TY CDR burns in the LG H22N (see this post - I’m so jealous :clap: ), I’m wondering if this very MID that I have is kinda lousier than other TY cdr blanks. :confused:

Another possibility is that the Benqs kinda dislike this very MID and report jitter incorrectly for it, but I don’t have another drive (Plextor, recent LiteOn) to cross-check jitter reporting.

So any input would be appreciated, either to confim or infirm that these 97m24s01f discs can or cannot be burnt at high speeds with good jitter results. :bow:

Thanks in advance for the input :slight_smile:


#2

I will check all my TY CR-R’s and if I have the same 97m24s01f on all of them.

If so I will run some more burns for you.


#3

I cannot get the 7% average jitter with these CD-Rs as I can with e.g. Verbatim Crystal Super Azo 52x CD-R Made in China or with Verbatim Extra Protection 52x Made in India.

The best I have managed so far is slightly above 8% jitter when burned in my NEC ND-4551A, BenQ DW1655 or Sony DW-G120A fw. MYS3 (a.k.a. LiteOn SHM-165P6S but with different firmware).

The beginning of a burn at 40x in my Optiarc AD-7173A has jitter slightly below 8% so I could try to burn another disc at 16x to see how it looks, if you’re interested.


#4

Thanks for the input :slight_smile: - so I’m not alone on this one!

@[B]DrageMester[/B]: with my 4550 I can reach the “holy grail” (LOL) of 7-7.5% with these if I burn them @8X, in case you’re interested to try in your 4551. But I know, @8X is slooooww! :doh:



#5

None of these other discs reach the extremely low C1 figures of my TY, though. :wink: - only some MCC can. (just for the record, in case some think I’m considering the other discs as superior to my TY, which is NOT the case… :bigsmile: )


#6

I don’t have any TY CD-Rs, but I get below 8% average with even a lot of my Plasmon, although I rarely burn above 32x. :eek:


#7

I don’t think recent LiteOns support CD jitter scanning :confused:

My 52x rated Verbatim Pastel CD-R are 97m24s01f too.
Here’s a Beta/Jitter scan of one of them, burned at 32x with LG GSA-H10N, if I remember correctly.
I don’t really know how to interpret Plextor jitter scans though :confused:



#8

Yeah, same strange thing, getting worse jitter (at high burning speeds) with MY TY than with other, cheaper discs. Paradox. :doh:
I first thought it was a cyanine thing, until I saw some excellent jitter that some others could achieve with TY @high speeds, but the exact MID was never mentioned.

Err… me neither! LOL :bigsmile:

[B]Drage [/B]? :flower: Cookie :flower: ?




#9

Thanks for the cookies. :slight_smile:

Interpreting Plextor jitter scans has never been an easy job, and since I got my Plextor PX-760A which disagrees completely with my PX-712A about jitter on many discs (DVDs), I’m coming closer to the Zen state of knowing absolutely nothing about scanning! :doh:

EDIT:

PlexTools Beta/Jitter scans don’t tell you the absolute jitter levels, only the relative jitter levels. The whole jitter graph is shifted vertically depending on the jitter levels reported by the drive.

By using PxScan you can get absolute jitter levels, but these vary from drive to drive and for CDs I even find that there’s an enormous difference between reported jitter values for Audio CDs and Data CDs with PxScan on my PX-712A.

I haven’t flashed the “free your Plextor” firmware to my PX-760A yet, so I can’t use PxScan with that drive yet.


#10

Wish i had a drive that could show jitter on both cd-rs and dvd-rs :frowning: . I do know though that my C1 Total is normal less than 800, dont know if that will have any relation to what the jitter will be.


#11

Would that be as reported by your LiteOn SOHR-5239V by any chance?

That drive will show even seriously damaged CD-Rs as having good quality, and I have the scans to prove it.


#12

Yeah it would be that drive, those numbers are only with TY CDr’s though. I would’nt mind seeing those scans though.


#13

You might well be 100% right, my bad. I foolishly assumed they could, since they implemented jitter reporting for DVDRs…


#14

To keep on-topic in this thread, I posted the scans here in another thread about CD scanning; compare the scans with those in post #18 in the same thread.


#15

cheers, i’l have a butchers.


#16

Damn I was hoping Franck had figured a way to make liteon scan jitter of cds when he said “recent liteons” :stuck_out_tongue:

Anyhow, do we know if home jitter scans are the same as professional ones? If not, then it probably doesn’t matter that much hehe.


#17

Why would it cease to matter? Absolute accuracy in the levels they report is not a necessity, as long as the drives show good consistency in reporting the trends in the jitter. In other words, as long as what is reported as having low jitter levels is indeed low as measured by a professional device and vice versa with reporting high jitter, then what the drives are reporting is still quite useful. (I’m not saying that these drives are in fact reporting similar trends in jitter as pro devices, I don’t know if they are or not).


#18

:iagree: same opinion here.

Anyway, it’s kinda irrelevant in this very instance to wonder if the reporting is “correct” or not: the case of these TY is unique and totally different than all the other CDR media I’ve used. So I’m just trying to figure out if this is reproductible, or confirmed by other users.

But apart from [B]DrageMester[/B]'s first input stating that he also can’t easily get low reported jitter from these 97m24s01f, looks like I can wait for actual relevant feedback… :bigsmile: - :flower:

I guess that’s partly because the concern about burning-induced jitter on CDRs, which comes from Audio-CD concerns, is (extremely) controversial and doesn’t catch much of the attention of most CDFreaks, who focus almost exclusively on BLER (C1/C2). Only a handful of madmen with a severe case of [I]audiophilia[/I] (me included :stuck_out_tongue: ) are interested in such matters… :bigsmile:


#19

@ Frank - your using BCIC with your 1650 :confused:

Do we have a standard scan speed when looking at jitter levels (sorry if i’ve missed it somewhere else). Drage’s link in post #1 was at X24 and Frank’s at X48 - this seems to make a real difference to my jitter reading?

I’ve used X24 as a X48 I get a few strange spikes :a

The following scans are:-

  1. Plextor 97m24s01f burnt on DW1650 X48
  2. Plextor 97m24s01f burnt on DW1650 X12
  3. Plextor 97m24s01f burnt on Plextor PX708A X40
  4. Verb 97m34s23f burnt on DW1650 X12






#20

No we don’t have a standard speed for jitter testing nor for C1/C2 testing. I agree that the higher scanning speeds tend to show higher jitter with a tendency to report increasing jitter towards the end of the disc.

Some drives and discs only show bad C1/C2 scans at the higher speeds, but there’s also a tendency for the highest scanning speeds to tell you more about the drive than about the disc.

This has made me decide on using 32x as my preferred scanning speed for most drives, although I use 40x or 48x on some LiteOn CD-RW drives because they are too forgiving for my taste at the lower speeds.

For the purpose of jitter scanning and for a “fair” reporting of C1/C2 levels across the entire disc surface, it’s better to have a constant linear scanning speed or nearly so. This can be achieved by using the 16x CLV, 12x CLV or 8x CLV scanning speeds for the BenQ drives.

So if someone wants to make and post new jitter scans on their BenQ drive, I suggest scanning at 16x CLV.