Surface RT tablets prices announced

[QUOTE=Coconut;2660342]I asked you before, and now the release of Windows 8 is getting close, so I’ll ask again. The eye-popping resolution of the Retina screen (2048 by 1536 pixels for the 9.7 screen if the iPad, which is higher than that of any existing PC laptop, presently 1920 x 1060 or some such for 15.4 screen, as compared to 2880-by-1800 resolution for the MacBook at the same size) – will anything like it be offered on PC laptops? I have seen no announcment of anything close.[/QUOTE]

The real question, which you seem to have missed due to kissing Apple’s behind, is what program is absolutely necessary to run on a tablet and not a laptop or desktop. The answer so far as I’ve seen, is absolutely none.

And frankly, you can have your retina laptop screen. I’m content with my HDMI equipped 23" dual LED backlit monitors. At least until 4K comes out…

[QUOTE=Coconut;2660342]I asked you before, and now the release of Windows 8 is getting close, so I’ll ask again. The eye-popping resolution of the Retina screen (2048 by 1536 pixels for the 9.7 screen if the iPad, which is higher than that of any existing PC laptop, presently 1920 x 1060 or some such for 15.4 screen, as compared to 2880-by-1800 resolution for the MacBook at the same size) – will anything like it be offered on PC laptops? I have seen no announcment of anything close.[/QUOTE]

I’ll reply to myself. I looked up Lenovo, Dell, HP, which are the three traditional PC laptop manufacturers with top-resolution screens prior to te Retina on Macs, and they have announced their new laptops with Windows 8. Not one of them has announced anything close to Retina. Their new laptops and tablets lag far behind the Retina resolution. They have yet to wake up to the Retina revolution. Consumers will spend the extra money buying MacBook (or MacBook Pro) with the Retina display (at 15.4 ad 13.3 sizes) and if they want Windows can get Windows (7 or 8) to run on them. The PC laptop world is going to die because it cannot compete. (This is typed on a Lenovo W500 with 1920 x 1200 15.4 screen).

I am so disappointed.

I am willing to be contradicted, if new evidence surfaces.

I’m not going to waste money or effort at Retina Displays - I’m waiting for the 64K TV displays - 3 inches x 1 - they will take LAWRENCE OF ARABIA into a whole new dimension! Panel prices will probably be in the sub-$10,000 range, too! Wheee…

All of us can buy teeny-weeny thimbles for our fingers so we can type on it. Keyboards may be based on DNA-chains - “lifesize DNA!!” Oooh yeah. That’s what I’m waiting on!

Of course, the embedding process will have an UN tax, I understand. Darn. Do we all end up with light-blue headsets or something?

[QUOTE=BradWright;2659869]I just read in today’s ComputerWorld Wrap-Up that the $499.00 Surface tablet has sold out and there is already a 3-week backorder to get one.
[/QUOTE]

Well, here’s the reason. Microsoft stacked the deck. According to Sasha Segan at PC Mag.com:
“But it sold out!” you cry. That may not be all it seems. I’ve heard that Microsoft made 250,000 initial Surface RT tablets, half of which (125,000) were the now sold-out 32GB model. But of those 125,000 tablets, a full 80,000 were purchased by Microsoft itself for employees. That means only 45,000 consumers and corporate IT managers have plunked down for Surface RT. That’s safely below the margin of super-analyst Michael Gartenberg’s Law, which says that with the right marketing you can sell 50,000 of anything.

Hubby’s company is an MS contractor for products, and they received a stack of Surface tabs in. Keyboards are pretty awful - except for people who can’t type. The touch screens are handy as long as you only read what’s there. “Doing something productive” (ie creating, adding to something, editing something) is definitely not the strong point. This is definitely a Couch-Potato-Sit-Back-And-Receive-All platform.

Some of the folks said, “It’s as easy to type on the screen’s keyboard as it is the actual keyboard.” Yes. That bad.

There are also some screen-color-combos that are pure Henry Ford - “Any color, as long as it’s black.” Alas, that’s not the same as “high contract combo’s”, though.

I think Microsoft has managed to rewind themselves back to their 2001 tablet. What a monumental achievement. In a few more versions, they should be able to match the 2003 products.

[QUOTE=Coconut;2661053]I’ll reply to myself. I looked up Lenovo, Dell, HP, which are the three traditional PC laptop manufacturers with top-resolution screens prior to te Retina on Macs, and they have announced their new laptops with Windows 8. Not one of them has announced anything close to Retina. Their new laptops and tablets lag far behind the Retina resolution. They have yet to wake up to the Retina revolution. Consumers will spend the extra money buying MacBook (or MacBook Pro) with the Retina display (at 15.4 ad 13.3 sizes) and if they want Windows can get Windows (7 or 8) to run on them. The PC laptop world is going to die because it cannot compete. (This is typed on a Lenovo W500 with 1920 x 1200 15.4 screen).

I am so disappointed.

I am willing to be contradicted, if new evidence surfaces.[/QUOTE]

Windows 8 is officially out, and PC manufacturers are officially advertising their W8 products. I again looked up Lenovo, Dell, HP, which are the three traditional PC laptop manufacturers with top-resolution screens prior to the Retina on Macs, and they have announced their new laptops with Windows 8. Not one of them has announced anything close to Retina.

Samsung makes the Retina screens for Apple (LG is said also to do the same, but LG is not a manufacturer of PC laptops), so should be able to make PC laptops with Retina displays, and a few months ago showed tablets with Retina displays, but never brought them to production. Now Samsung has the ATIV Smart PC Pro 700T at almost two thousand bucks, and it has an 11.6" screen with 1920 x 1080 resolution, which is (still) the highest resolution offered on any PC laptop or tablet – HP, Lenovo and Dell have it on their 15.4 screens (my Lenovo W500 has such a screen). Samsung now has the same resolution on an 11.6" screen, which is still nowhere near Retina resolution, but it is the highest resolution on any PC laptop or tablet. The machine has W8.

Totally unbelieveable!!! Does Apple patent the Retina display?

Coconut, you still haven’t answered the question the rest of us non palavering Apply fanboys have in our minds? Why do we need a Retina display? So what if it’s 1920x1080 on a 11.6 screen? What good does it do me the consumer? Does it make me surf the web faster, answer e-mail quicker, make power point presentations faster?

Or is this “Retina Revolution” you trumpet so loudly about just marketing Kool Aid?

Think about how much they could reduce the price of their tablets and laptops if they had regular screens? Nah, Apple would never make their items affordable. Silly me.

[QUOTE=yojimbo197;2661551]Coconut, you still haven’t answered the question the rest of us non palavering Apply fanboys have in our minds? Why do we need a Retina display? So what if it’s 1920x1080 on a 11.6 screen? What good does it do me the consumer? Does it make me surf the web faster, answer e-mail quicker, make power point presentations faster?

Or is this “Retina Revolution” you trumpet so loudly about just marketing Kool Aid?

Think about how much they could reduce the price of their tablets and laptops if they had regular screens? Nah, Apple would never make their items affordable. Silly me.[/QUOTE]

It is nice to have high resolution, and I always have had the laptop with the screen with the highest resolution in the PC world, usually IBM/Lenovo, though HP and Dell also have the same screen. Right now, and already for five years or so, it is 1920x1200 on a 15.4 screen. Now Samsung has come out with a tablet with an 11.6 screen with 1920x1080 resolution, which is the highest resolution of any laptop or tablet in the PC world. If it was Retina, it should have 2170 x … resolution for such a screen size.

This situation leads me to suspect that the highest resolution supported by Windows 8 is 1920 x …, and that the limit on resolution is imposed by Microsoft and not by hardware manufacturers, as Samsung itself provides the Retina displays for Apple (LG does the same).

But regardless where the limit comes from, Microsoft or the hardware manufacturers, PC laptop and tablet manufacturers are killing themselves if they do not sell resolution comparable (or higher than) Retina.

As to the above Samsung tablet: it has Windows 8, a 11.6 screen with less-than-Retina display – and costs 1930 bucks. The MacBook with 13.3 screen and Retina costs 1700 and up (but has no touch screen), so the Apple blows the Samsung away in price, and the latest iPad wih Retina (with touch screen) is also price-competitive. How is the PC laptop and tablet world going to survive?

[QUOTE=Coconut;2661557]It is nice to have high resolution, and I always have had the laptop with the screen with the highest resolution in the PC world, usually IBM/Lenovo, though HP and Dell also have the same screen. Right now, and already for five years or so, it is 1920x1200 on a 15.4 screen. Now Samsung has come out with a tablet with an 11.6 screen with 1920x1080 resolution, which is the highest resolution of any laptop or tablet in the PC world. If it was Retina, it should have 2170 x … resolution for such a screen size.

This situation leads me to suspect that the highest resolution supported by Windows 8 is 1920 x …, and that the limit on resolution is imposed by Microsoft and not by hardware manufacturers, as Samsung itself provides the Retina displays for Apple (LG does the same).

But regardless where the limit comes from, Microsoft or the hardware manufacturers, PC laptop and tablet manufacturers are killing themselves if they do not sell resolution comparable (or higher than) Retina.

As to the above Samsung tablet: it has Windows 8, a 11.6 screen with less-than-Retina display – and costs 1930 bucks. The MacBook with 13.3 screen and Retina costs 1700 and up (but has no touch screen), so the Apple blows the Samsung away in price, and the latest iPad wih Retina (with touch screen) is also price-competitive. How is the PC laptop and tablet world going to survive?[/QUOTE]

Coconut, you still haven’t answered the question the rest of us non palavering Apply fanboys have in our minds? Why do we need a Retina display? So what if it’s 1920x1080 on a 11.6 screen? What good does it do me the consumer? Does it make me surf the web faster, answer e-mail quicker, make power point presentations faster?

Or is this “Retina Revolution” you trumpet so loudly about just marketing Kool Aid?

Think about how much they could reduce the price of their tablets and laptops if they had regular screens? Nah, Apple would never make their items affordable. Silly me.

[QUOTE=Coconut;2661557]It is nice to have high resolution, and I always have had the laptop with the screen with the highest resolution in the PC world, usually IBM/Lenovo, though HP and Dell also have the same screen. Right now, and already for five years or so, it is 1920x1200 on a 15.4 screen. Now Samsung has come out with a tablet with an 11.6 screen with 1920x1080 resolution, which is the highest resolution of any laptop or tablet in the PC world. If it was Retina, it should have 2170 x … resolution for such a screen size.

This situation leads me to suspect that the highest resolution supported by Windows 8 is 1920 x …, and that the limit on resolution is imposed by Microsoft and not by hardware manufacturers, as Samsung itself provides the Retina displays for Apple (LG does the same).

But regardless where the limit comes from, Microsoft or the hardware manufacturers, PC laptop and tablet manufacturers are killing themselves if they do not sell resolution comparable (or higher than) Retina.

As to the above Samsung tablet: it has Windows 8, a 11.6 screen with less-than-Retina display – and costs 1930 bucks. The MacBook with 13.3 screen and Retina costs 1700 and up (but has no touch screen), so the Apple blows the Samsung away in price, and the latest iPad wih Retina (with touch screen) is also price-competitive. How is the PC laptop and tablet world going to survive?[/QUOTE]

Amazingly, a non-PC machine is up to Retina display. It is Google Nexus 10, which sports a screen slightly bigger than 10 inches, with a resolution of 2,560 x 1,600 and a 300-pixels-per-inch density. That means the same resolution as Apple’s new 13.3-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display but with a higher PPI. The machine runs on Android 4.2 Jelly Bean.

So, somebody does produce a machine with Retina display, perhaps a little better. Just not in the PC world.

Hey Coconut,
You still haven’t answered my question. Why do we need Retina Display level of resolution on a laptop or a tablet?

“Need”? IBM’s studies in the '70s said, “Readers only see about 7 lines of text” so IBM’s first console word processors had a 7 line CRT display.

If “needs” were always being addressed, we’d have tall vertical monitors since text still dominates our computer’s viewing and reading services. Widescreen is great for watching LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, but when was the last time you NEEDED to watch that?

“Need” is so far from being addressed in our world of marketing. Just like cowards with their guns, it’s a world of what we can accomplish and what some people can get away with. Not “need”, though.

“What’s useful” might be the question, but I’ll be waiting for the 24K displays in a 3x1 inch format. Oh yeah, I can’t wait. “You can put the whole Bible on a single screen.” Uh huh… yeah… riiiight.

[QUOTE=yojimbo197;2661783]Hey Coconut,
You still haven’t answered my question. Why do we need Retina Display level of resolution on a laptop or a tablet?[/QUOTE]

The great discovery of technological giants, like Jobs, is that there is an unfulfilled need for something, which can be fulfilled at great commercial profit. Polaroid was a predecessor. People did not know that they wanted an instant camera, and when they saw one, they bought it right away. Jobs saw the need for portable music, for portable phone, with as much technology wrapped up in it as humanly possible, and packaged in an apealing manner, like screen with the highest resolution that technology can deliver. So prior to the Retina screen, 1920 x 1200 or 1920 x 1060 were the highest resolution offered by the PC laptop world, for five years or so, and Apple came nowhere near there. Suddenly Apple came up with the Retina screen, and blew the competition away. I looked at the iPad with Retina, and it was impressive (haven’t bought one yet). Now only Google has a Retina screen outside of Apple. HP, Lenovo and Dell are left behind. Even Samsung, which makes the Retina screen for Apple, does not have a machine with it.

Pretty soon, the PC laptop and tablet world is going to be left behind, with only Apple and Google competing.

[QUOTE=Coconut;2661875]The great discovery of technological giants, like Jobs, is that there is an unfulfilled need for something, which can be fulfilled at great commercial profit. Polaroid was a predecessor. People did not know that they wanted an instant camera, and when they saw one, they bought it right away. Jobs saw the need for portable music, for portable phone, with as much technology wrapped up in it as humanly possible, and packaged in an apealing manner, like screen with the highest resolution that technology can deliver. So prior to the Retina screen, 1920 x 1200 or 1920 x 1060 were the highest resolution offered by the PC laptop world, for five years or so, and Apple came nowhere near there. Suddenly Apple came up with the Retina screen, and blew the competition away. I looked at the iPad with Retina, and it was impressive (haven’t bought one yet). Now only Google has a Retina screen outside of Apple. HP, Lenovo and Dell are left behind. Even Samsung, which makes the Retina screen for Apple, does not have a machine with it.

Pretty soon, the PC laptop and tablet world is going to be left behind, with only Apple and Google competing.[/QUOTE]

Screen quality counts.

<<For one, the iPad mini has the same display as the iPad 2, meaning that while it’s a fine display it doesn’t match up to the latest iPads or even the Kindle Fire and Nexus 7. This wasn’t a huge problem, reviewers said, but it was worth comment in every review.

“In my tests, video looked just fine, but not as good as on the regular iPad,” wrote the Wall Street Journal’s Walt Mossberg.

But the difference in quality was noticeable, and reviewers warned that those who expect a very high-quality display for video may want to give the iPad mini a pass.>>

And that’s on a rather small (8.75-inch) screen. On a laptop with 13.3 or 15.4 screen, the quality screams. A 15.4 screen that tops out at 1920 (Lenovo, HP, Dell) will flop next to one that tops out at 2880 (the MacBook Pro). The gorgeous Retina will drive out the lesser competition.

Christine you are right, I probably should have phrased that sentence better.
“What applications or programs does the Retina Display allow a RD tablet or RD laptop user to do that cannot be done on a normal laptop or tablet?”

If the answer is “Watch video” then that’s a shaky argument. I can watch video on my smartphone or a Kindle Fire or a an Android Tablet or my PC laptop. Do I watch video regularly and for long periods of time on any of those? Heck no because its uncomfortable. I’d rather be in front of my 23" HD screen or my g/f’s 40" HDTV.

Your example about fulfilling a new and unanticipated market demand is valid for the technologies you cited. However I don’t see the WOW/OMG/must have application that Retina Display allows you to do, unlike the Polaroid, portable digital audio player, and cellular phone.

[QUOTE=ChristineBCW;2661059]I’m not going to waste money or effort at Retina Displays - I’m waiting for the 64K TV displays - 3 inches x 1 - they will take LAWRENCE OF ARABIA into a whole new dimension! Panel prices will probably be in the sub-$10,000 range, too! Wheee…

All of us can buy teeny-weeny thimbles for our fingers so we can type on it. Keyboards may be based on DNA-chains - “lifesize DNA!!” Oooh yeah. That’s what I’m waiting on!

Of course, the embedding process will have an UN tax, I understand. Darn. Do we all end up with light-blue headsets or something?[/QUOTE]

Good news. Google has just announced Samsung-making Nexus 10 tablet running Android and featuring 2560 x 1600 screen. Still no slot for additional memory card, but cheap enough to outdo iPad of any generation yet announced. It has more pixels than an Apple’s US$999 27-inch Thunderbolt Display.

[QUOTE=Kenshin;2662412]Good news. Google has just announced Samsung-making Nexus 10 tablet running Android and featuring 2560 x 1600 screen. Still no slot for additional memory card, but cheap enough to outdo iPad of any generation yet announced. It has more pixels than an Apple’s US$999 27-inch Thunderbolt Display.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm… It would be interesting to see if there’s any discernible difference as the hype around the retina display was that it’s supposedly at the limit of what the human eye can see.

[B]Wombler[/B]

[QUOTE=Coconut;2661520]Windows 8 is officially out, and PC manufacturers are officially advertising their W8 products. I again looked up Lenovo, Dell, HP, which are the three traditional PC laptop manufacturers with top-resolution screens prior to the Retina on Macs, and they have announced their new laptops with Windows 8. Not one of them has announced anything close to Retina.

Samsung makes the Retina screens for Apple (LG is said also to do the same, but LG is not a manufacturer of PC laptops), so should be able to make PC laptops with Retina displays, and a few months ago showed tablets with Retina displays, but never brought them to production. Now Samsung has the ATIV Smart PC Pro 700T at almost two thousand bucks, and it has an 11.6" screen with 1920 x 1080 resolution, which is (still) the highest resolution offered on any PC laptop or tablet – HP, Lenovo and Dell have it on their 15.4 screens (my Lenovo W500 has such a screen). Samsung now has the same resolution on an 11.6" screen, which is still nowhere near Retina resolution, but it is the highest resolution on any PC laptop or tablet. The machine has W8.

Totally unbelieveable!!! Does Apple patent the Retina display?[/QUOTE]

I think there are several reasons. Some people will answer your question by saying that Apple is innovative and the others are not. Some others will say Retina is patented by Apple, and it’s true.

Whether you believe Apple is far more innovative than Lenovo, LG, Samsung, HP, Dell, Toshiba, Sony, and hundreds of others is your choice. Whether the fact Apple has patent rights concerning Retina - the technology or the brand name or whatever is also your choice and clearly different people have different opinions on that.

What is plain and cannot be disagreed upon is that there are limits to producing Retina-quality panels. Another is that it costs far more for Sharp, Samsung, and LG to produce such panels. The cost difference is small compared to the price differences offered to end user consumers, but even such differences mean a lot to shareholders and it’s they that decide the fate of building plants and increasing investment.

Since Apple has been asking all the display manfufacturers to produce such high-resolution screens, they had to allot certain amount of investment on their R&D and plants, but yield rate has been unsatisfactory. It was not very profitable for LG to produce 30-inch panels capable of 2560 x 1600 resolution. It was profitable, but the market preferred smaller screens with smaller resolution and “Full HD” and “Wide” (or 16:9 ratio) was most fashionable.

Another factor is less obvious. Apple is owned and cared for by people who read books. Samsung is not. LG is not. Somehow Apple’s owners and its consumers prefer higher-resolution screens so that more pixels can be displayed on single screen, and on single device. None of the South Korean managers, shareholders, investors, engineers I’ve seen care about such things. Steve Jobs liked to say Apple makes products that its employers, especially the engineers and designers themselves wanted to use. Japanese electronics makers liked to make things like Walkman. Laptops and smaller-factor computer devices were far better sold in Japan than in the US. Ebooks are far better sold and read in the US than in South Korea. An average South Korean uses many times more Internet bandwidth than an average North American, but it’s the opposite for ebooks. There are a lot of posts on Apple-related web forums focusing on Retina, but such discussions are far rarer on other places and practically none on South Korean forums. Steve Jobs loved to tell people how great Retina is and cheated enough people to make the world believe only Apple can do it and it’s wholly owned by Apple. Chairman Lee Gun Hee of Samsung and Chairman Goo (or Koo) of LG are far older. They have poorer eyesights and far less interest on ebooks. Dell and HP? They are bureaucrats and dumb engineers and will not do anything until they have to sell their companies at the lowest prices to Apple, or Google, or maybe even Samsung.

Why should Apple monopolize or nearly monopolize the relatively small quantity of Retina-quality panels for higher-resolution computer display? Maybe Steve Jobs forced the three important panel makers to provide the best panels only to Apple. Maybe they thought it was in their best interest to sell to Apple only instead of using the outputs in their own products. Maybe only Apple decided such high resolutions made sense and they could make the market realize the advantages. Sony was selling high-resolution subnotebooks, but the prices were high and features other than the high resolutions were mostly poor. Sony itself is experiencing the worst crisis losing billions of dollars each quarter and firing thousands of employees and gave up display panel production nearly completely years ago.

[QUOTE=Wombler;2662415]Hmmm… It would be interesting to see if there’s any discernible difference as the hype around the retina display was that it’s supposedly at the limit of what the human eye can see.

[B]Wombler[/B][/QUOTE]

I think Steve Jobs succeeded because he was a poet, not an engineer, and since he was a poor sort of poet, the Apple hypes won’t last very long. Stalin was a far better poet than him.

Phrases like “intersection of technology and liberal arts” might sound sexy and even intelligent, but he overused them, and forced his followers also to abuse and misuse them.

[QUOTE=Kenshin;2662417]Sony was selling high-resolution subnotebooks, but the prices were high and features other than the high resolutions were mostly poor. Sony itself is experiencing the worst crisis losing billions of dollars each quarter and firing thousands of employees and gave up display panel production nearly completely years ago.[/QUOTE]

Indeed Sony is now offering at very high prices small laptops (13’1", the Z series) and tablets (11’6", the Duo series) with 1920 resolution, just like Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro 700T (11’6", which is announced but not produced yet), but 1920 is still the highest resolution in the PC laptop and tablet world. Lenovo, HP, Dell, Sony don’t produce anything higher.

Totally astonishing. Do they want Apple to buy them (the companies) at firesale prices?