Strange copy-protection on DVD movie?

I have the Samsung R145 DVD recorder. When I tried to copy a movie from another DVD to the R145 I got a message saying that the DVD could not be copied because of protection.

However, I was able to copy the movie to my VHS player. Now all I have to do is record the movie onto DVD using my VHS as the player.

Does anyone here know how to get the copy protection bypassed on the R145 recorder. Because I’m sure it’s the recorder that is preventing the copy and not the DVD itself because I was able to copy it to VHS.

Thanks for the help.

Fretman -

The Copy Protection scheme you encountered in your attempt to copy the Commercial DVD Movie Title is contained in the file structure of the data contained in Commercial DVD Movie Title and is not “inside” your Samsung R145 DVD recorder. These Commercial DVD Movie Title Copy Protection schemes are very sophisticated and require special software programs to circumvent. All Commercial DVD Movies Titles contain some type of Copy Protection scheme to prevent duplication copying.

If you desire to make backup copies of your Commercial DVD Movie collection for your own personnel use the easiest way is to use a Computer that has a DVD Burner and the AnyDVD / CloneDVD software program combination. These software programs are available from SlySoft (http://www.slysoft.com). AnyDVD is special software program that removes Commercial DVD Movie Title Copy Protection schemes and CloneDVD is software program that makes duplicate copies of Commercial DVD Movie Title. The AnyDVD and CloneDVD software programs need to be used in conjunction with each other.

To get an idea on how the AnyDVD/CloneDVD software products function below is a CD Freaks Forum Link to the AnyDVD/CloneDVD User Tutorial that explains the functions of these two software programs.

http://forum.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?threadid=72022

BeLooken

Thanks for the great response. However, can you explain why I was able to copy the DVD onto a VHS tape???

Since your Samsung R145 is a standalone dvd recorder, I am assuming you tried to copy the dvd in question by playing it on another standalone dvd player, while connected to the audio and video inputs of the Samsung R145. If I am misunderstanding what you tried to do, please straighten us out.

By connecting in this fashion, and playing the dvd in one device, while the target device is in record mode, the program being copied is being converted to analog audio/video by the source dvd player, and then fed to your Samsung recorder via the cables. In this mode, CSS data encryption on the source dvd does not come into play (since your source dvd player is basically “decrypting” the dvd while it is playing). However, if the source dvd has the “macrovision” bit set “on”, then your source dvd player will respond to that by encoding the analog output video stream with macrovision distortion (basically pulses in the automatic gain control signal intended to foil recording circuits in recording devices). My guess is that your source dvd does, in fact, have “macrovision” on, and your Samsung is detecting macrovision distortion and refusing to record the video.

Not all commercially made dvd’s have macrovision on. MGM is a studio that put out a fair number of dvd’s without including macrovision on them. These dvd’s would record to tape and dvd recorders just fine via this digital to analog process. There are also some dvd players that are macrovision free (ie. they do not ever turn on macrovision distortion regardless of what the macrovision bit on the source dvd says). Most such players were the product of clever folks who figured out a “hack” to permanently turn off macrovision distortion.

Why were you able to record to your vhs deck? I’m not aware of any VHS decks that know how to detect that an analog video signal being fed to it has macrovision distortion turned on. So, your vhs deck will happily go on its way trying to record. Not all decks are sensitive to macrovision distortion and your tape might be ok. On the other hand, you should play back your tape and see if the colors and brightness tend to shift and toggle between dark and bright. If they do - that is what macrovision does to make the tape copy inferior and annoying to watch.

If I’m way off base here in how you attempted to copy, please come back and explain in detail how you had it set up and we’ll try again.

You are dead on. That is exactly what I was doing. I was playing the DVD in question on my older JVC DVD player and using my new Samsung DVD recorder to try and make the copy.

Unfortunately it didn’t work. Unless someone here can tell me how to disable the copy protection on the Samsung recorder if that even makes sense.

The recording onto my VHS tape went fine. There is no problem on that. I’ll transfer the VHS copy onto my DVD recorder soon. I’m sure I won’t have a problem with that.

Are all DVD recorders like this? Or should I have gotten a DVD recorder without this copy protection thingy?

Thanks again for the help!

Fretman -

Suggest re-reading my #2 posting.

It appears that you still do not understand where the Copy Protection Scheme is located. It is not inside your Samsung R145 DVD Recorder. The Copy Protection Scheme has absolutely nothing to do with your Samsung R145 DVD Recorder. The Copy Protection Scheme is contained in the file structure of the data contained in on each and every Commercial DVD Movie Title.

You are not going to be able to use any type of Standalone Desktop DVD Recorder like your Samsung R145 if you are going to attempt to make duplicate copies of Commercial DVD Movie Title because a special software program similar to AnyDVD is required to remove the sophisticated Copy Protection Scheme contained in each and every Commercial DVD Movie Title. There is no way to get the special Copy Protection Scheme removal software program inside your Samsung R145 Standalone Desktop DVD Recorder.

As Forum Member Rich86 explained there is a possibly that you might have a problem with Macrovision Distortion on the VHS to Samsung R145 DVD Recorder conversion. Mostly certainly you will notice video quality degradation because you have taken Digital DVD and converted to Analog VHS Tape and then have taken the Analog VHS Tape and converted it back to Digital DVD. There is a lot video quality degradation using this procedure. This is also a time consuming process because it takes 4 hours to copy a 2-hour movie. Using a computer and AnyDVD/CloneDVD software it takes approximately 20 minutes to make a quality backup of a 2 hour DVD Movie that will far exceed the video and audio quality of your Digital/Analog/Digital conversion.

As stated previously if you desire to make backup copies of your Commercial DVD Movie collection for your own personnel use the easiest way is to use a Computer that has a DVD Burner and using computer software programs similar to AnyDVD and CloneDVD.

BeLooken

To make it simple, you won’t be able to back up DVD originals you have purchased with a standalone recorder. You back them up on a computer.

Since you are in the CloneDVD section of cdf, use AnyDVD to decrypt your original and use CloneDVD to rip and burn onto your blank backup media.

Whisperer

When I first started backing up movies thats how I did it, with one dvd player connected to a dvd recorder, but you need a device that will remove the encryption from the video signal, I used a Sima video enhancer I purchased off of Ebay since they were cheaper then Best Buy or Circuit City, it removes the encryption. But I now do all back ups on my pc as it is not only faster but I can keep extras and such on the back up as well if I choose to.

Although it is probably technically feasible to modify the firmware or circuitry in your Samsung dvd recorder to ignore the fact that the video signal being fed to it has macrovision inserted distortion, unless someone has found some simple hack to accomplish that, it is not practical to consider. And the material recorded on your dvd might suffer from the agc bursts that macrovision inserts. If you are determined to record dvd’s on your Samsung from dvd source material via this cable connection (thus forcing a digital to analog back to digital conversion), your best bet would be to find a dvd player that has been modified to permanently turn off macrovision in the player. There have been any number of such models available over the years. I have a couple of Pioneers that I modified a number of years ago to permanently disable the insertion of macrovision distortion in the output stream. As someone else mentioned, you could also resort to one of the “black box” devices available that would connect between your source dvd player and your Samsung dvd recorder to remove the macrovision distortion.

As others have said, and I absolutely agree with, dubbing dvd’s to dvd recordable media in the fashion you are attempting is not a good idea. No matter what you do, the quality of the video is going to degrade very noticeably and the audio stream will be forced to 2 channel stereo at best. I cannot imagine how badly the video will deteriorate if you dub from a dvd, to a vhs tape, and then to your Samsung dvd recorder. Keep in mind that with each dubbing step, the resulting quality will degrade to at least whatever the lowest level of resolution ever existed in the stream. When you finally end up with your material on a dvd, it will play at the quality level of a vhs tape, at best. You would be much better served to backup your dvd’s via a computer system.

Perhaps I should have included “… and maintain any degree of quality or efficiency.” I had to look twice to make sure this was not a thread started in 2000! :bigsmile:

Thanks to all for the help and for clarifying things for me. I don’t have a PC DVD-burner but I guess I should get one when I get my new computer system.

any new pc nowadays should have one already, but make sure it does before you order it

Fretman -

Suggest before purchasing a computer DVD Burner that you visit the CD Freaks DVD Burner User Reviews and Comments Forum and do some research. Don’t be fooled by Name Brands. You might be surprised to learn that Sony, HP and the like don’t actually manufacture their DVD Burners but subcontract to manufactures like NEC, Lite-On, BenQ and others. Do through research you will be able to purchase a quality reliable DVD Burner substantially cheaper than the so-called known Name Brands. Also computer DVD Burners if purchased On-Line aren’t all that expensive. For instance you can purchase a Pioneer DVD-111D from NewEgg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827129002) for 32 bucks.

BeLooken

fretman,
I agree with BeLooken. You don’t need to buy a new computer ($$$!). Just buy a DVD burner drive. I like the BenQ because it makes booktyping +R media so easy with it’s bundled suite of utilities.

Thanks again for the advice. I guess since the copyright protection is on the DVD itself there isn’t anything special that I should be weary about when purchasing a PC DVD burner? I guess all of them should be able to make backups of DVD’s with protection on them?

Fretman -

As suggested in posting #13 visit the CD Freaks DVD Burner User Reviews and Comments Forum (http://club.cdfreaks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=107) and do some research. Just don’t haphazardly without any knowledge purchase any old DVD Burner that you stumble upon. As Forum Member Whisperer1 points out you should get a DVD Burner that supports BookType Bit Setting of DVD+R Media to DVD-ROM for improved compatibility with DVD Playback devices.

Also as suggested in my #2 posting it is a good idea to the review the AnyDVD/CloneDVD User Tutorial which explains the functions of these two software programs so you can get an idea what is involved in using a computer to make backup duplicate copies of Commercial DVD Movie Movies ->

http://forum.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?threadid=72022

The more research you do on the subject the more informed and knowledgeable you will be subject and less needless mistakes you will make.

BeLooken

Personal opinion: I avoid sony because I am angry at them over the root kit virus abomination and won’t give them my money ever. And because they are so big in the movie industry, I don’t trust them not to put a kink into their drives or firmware updates eventually. I also avoid their OEM partner drives (I believe Lite-On and Matsushita are Sony business partners).

Again, these are my opinions … you do your own research.

Whisperer

Fretman –

I echo Forum Member Whisperer1 comments concerning avoiding Sony devices.

Strongly suggest avoiding Matshita/Matsushita/Panasonic DVD computer drives. They are impossible to make RPC-1 (Region Free) and have poor Firmware support.

BeLooken

i believe that sony out source all the optical drives & dvd players, lite-on are just one of the companies they use, not sure of any others.
I would still by a lite-on drive & i’ve just bought a lite-on dvd recorder.

have a look around this forum and see what will suit you

http://club.cdfreaks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=61

Thanks again for the information on the DVD burners. I guess the message I get is to avoid “Sony” so I will. I’m not in a rush yet for the new computer system so I’ll do more research into a burner before buying.

I’ve always liked LG products. I have their TV and cellular phone and I’ve been happy. Our local box store is selling an LG burner so I’ll research that model. Here’s a link to it http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10080694&catid=20236. Not sure if any of you are familiar with the model.

As a side note I tried to copy the movie off the VHS tape that I dubbed from the original DVD. No can do. I get the same copyright protection message. However, I was able to record about 5 seconds worth.