Sticky paper labels on DVD+/-R discs: beware!

vbimport

#121

I think I’ve learned my lesson…I was using labels until I discovered the printable ones. Here’s a perfect example of what a label can do to a DVD.

First Scan - with label

Second scan - without label

As far as the second scan goes, this DVD was a duplicate so I did not clean it properly…I used a solution by the name of Awesome Orange which can probably clean grease caked on someone’s engine, (it even smells like engine cleaner) I used paper towels and a kitchen washcloth to wipe it dry. The spikes towards the end are more than likely due to the scratches on it since the disk was on a not so clean surface when I was taking the label off. The label has been on this disk since August of 2007.

Think the results are conclusive?

By the way, anyone have any idea what kind of disks these are? I bought and used these up long before I even knew about thsi thread and they have given me some decent scan results.




#122

I had similar results: About 2 or 3 years ago, I bought some hard-to-find TV shows from a company in Canada (presumanly they had the copyright owners permission to do that) and of the 23 discs, all had full-face paper labels and heaps of glue. Some of the discs were partially unreadable from Day 1, rising to about 1/2 to 3/4 having serious problems within a year.

Over the last year or so, I have been using water and scraping tools such as a screwdriver to remove the paper labels and glue (which there was a full layer of) from the discs HOWEVER, though I was able to recover the data in this way, I was unable to bring PI/PO rates down to what would be expected for that caliber of media (TYG 02, which is 8x Taiyo Yuden DVD-R). For that reason and others, I ended up reburning about 1/3 of the discs to MCC 004 (Verbatim DVD+R 16x) and YUDEN000 T02 (Taiyo Yuden DVD+R 8x).

Your disc is manufactured by Optodisc, which is should be decent, I think some on here really like it, but most people here would suggest that anything important should only be kept on media made by Taiyo Yuden or made by/for Verbatim (Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation).

Your disc is finished - it shows the same signs of permanent damage as my Early Edition TYG02s - either during labelling, while the labels were on, or during removal, the discs were permanently damaged. While it is still readable, those PI rates are not really acceptable.

For reference, though, I did get my hands on some of those Memorex polyester DVD labels and they work a treat - I have not had any problems with them so far.


#123

Hey Sean,

I took notice to the reviews on blank media while browsing this site yesterday…I just wish I found this site earlier in the week since I just ordered new DVD’s (Ritek Ridata). I might return them in exchange for either of the ones you mentioned above.

I figured the disk was shot so I didn’t make much of an effort to clean it off properly or try not to scratch it worse than it already was. I was just experimenting to see how different the results would be without the label.

I know this is a bit off topic here, but any thoughts on the DVD burner? Should I consider purchasing a new one?


#124

mmmmm…this is a great post so far:iagree:

I have about 900 dvd’s with the sticky label’s on them - done over the last 4 years.
I live in Australia & the brand i use is either fellows or Techworks.

Now while i have encounted no problems - while i am very concerned,i aint fixing what aint broke!

PS: Never use Ritek F1 discs!!!


#126

So this thread is for those who have used them.

After extensive research online I have discovered that CD labels are sometimes not very popular. Common complaints include unreadability after a few plays, labels coming off, longevity of media being decreased, and so forth.

Over the last few weeks I have been playing numerous CDRs w/ paper labels attached to them that I’ve had for between 5-10 years now, and believe it or not, not a single one of them had a problem.

I wonder if this issue with CD labels really just isn’t a result of general disc abuse? I mean I take care of my CDR media and always put it away in a jewel case after I am done. I don’t imagine occasional use hurts at all either. But I mean if you’re playing a CDR with a label on it over and over again in a high speed player like the one you have in your car I can see how that’d be a problem since it’d heat the CDR up to the point it’d begin to melt.

So I’m interested in hearing both yays and nays about this. Am I the only one that has had luck when using paper labels?


#127

I still have a few surviving discs with 3-year old paper labels so I’d say I have a bit of luck with them. I’ve had a higher percentage of “dead” discs however due to glue contamination of the data layer or disc warping or unbalancing that have caused CDs to die/decompose/refuse to read. A couple of discs working as compared to spindles of unreadable discs speaks volumes.

So for safety’s sake I’d still go with a “not recommended” stance on the use of CD labels. Direct to disc printing is the way to go, or the tried and proven Sharpie/felt marker. :wink: :smiley:


#128

[QUOTE=evo69;2240958]I still have a few surviving discs with 3-year old paper labels so I’d say I have a bit of luck with them. I’ve had a higher percentage of “dead” discs however due to glue contamination of the data layer or disc warping or unbalancing that have caused CDs to die/decompose/refuse to read. A couple of discs working as compared to spindles of unreadable discs speaks volumes.

So for safety’s sake I’d still go with a “not recommended” stance on the use of CD labels. Direct to disc printing is the way to go, or the tried and proven Sharpie/felt marker. :wink: :D[/QUOTE]

How do you use your discs though?

I mean I take care of my CDRs. I put them away in their jewel box after they’re done, and I don’t put them in car stereos since they tend to over heat the disc. I just got done listening to a disc w/ a paper label that I’ve had for over 7 years and didn’t experience a single problem.


#129

[quote=Atal;2241153]How do you use your discs though?

I mean I take care of my CDRs. I put them away in their jewel box after they’re done, and I don’t put them in car stereos since they tend to over heat the disc. I just got done listening to a disc w/ a paper label that I’ve had for over 7 years and didn’t experience a single problem.[/quote]

Not to sound arrogant but I do know how to take care of discs. There’s nothing I hate more than mishandled discs, and I’m the kind of person who’d lose it if I found oil stains on my discs, even on the label side. :stuck_out_tongue: I do overuse my discs though, and this is one of the reasons why I have a high percentage of “dead” discs - and the tropical temperature and 95% humidity does advance deterioration faster. I find it absurd if I can’t use my discs for extended periods of time just to make sure the paper label doesn’t warp… :Z :confused:

Optical discs were designed to be exposed to higher temperatures and shouldn’t melt under extended use. Paper labels are just designed to stick. Polyester labels are better but it doesn’t mean they won’t cause any problems. The problem lies in the material that is used in these labels (and adhesive), and how they are attached - a fraction of a mm short of being centered is enough to unbalance the disc at a high rotational speed. So unless you’re using labels similar to the CD’s own polycarbonate and attach labels with machine-like accuracy then… :Z

There’s no way I’d recommend sticky labels still. I can’t let sticky labels hinder the use of my discs, period. The data on them is more important than the labels! :stuck_out_tongue:

People who are anal with disc care never use sticky labels and either mark them by hand or print directly to the surface of the disc. I’ve yet to hear someone complain that their Sharpie’d CD/DVD or printed disc warped or unreadable due to their labelling efforts. :wink:


#130

I have been reading this thread, albeit not every single post and found it very interesting. It never occurred to me that the heat from a player would have an effect on the label, as in melting. I just within the last couple of weeks purchased an external DVD burner and it has light scribe so of course I won’t need paper labels at all.

After reading a few posts about how the label on a disk stayed intact yet the dvd quality began to lessen made me think of something. I have no idea if this would have any impact or not, but I thought I would throw it out there.

I am a paper crafter, ie scrapbooking and making my own greeting cards. Any kind of paper I use is acid & lignin (spell?) free so as not to cause photos and such to yellow and eventually be unrecognizable as they will be come just thrown in a box.

I have never noticed paper labels having a disclaimer that they are acid free, so I am wondering if the acid in the paper could have an effect on a disk over time causing it to lose quality even if the label seems to be in tact.


#131

Great stuff to know, thanks for that!


#132

Ok it makes total sence that paper labels shouldn’t be used. (in fact before reading this I came to it on my own, the hard way) BUT what is the alternative? a printer that accepts printable DVDs comes to mind. a guy I play FPS with has one but he’s in UK.
I’m in US - what is in my future? an ink-hogging cannon printer?


#133

[QUOTE=Crawlez;2562414]Ok it makes total sence that paper labels shouldn’t be used. (in fact before reading this I came to it on my own, the hard way) BUT what is the alternative? a printer that accepts printable DVDs comes to mind. a guy I play FPS with has one but he’s in UK.
I’m in US - what is in my future? an ink-hogging cannon printer?[/QUOTE]
I use a Epson Artisan 800 using the cheapest compatiable carts. I don’t think it’s a ink hog, if you need to do a lot of printing look into a continuous ink system. Print quality is excellent BTW.


#134

[QUOTE=jamescooley1;2562418]I use a Epson Artisan 800 using the cheapest compatiable carts. I don’t think it’s a ink hog, if you need to do a lot of printing look into a continuous ink system. Print quality is excellent BTW.[/QUOTE]

just today I was considering the Artisan 835 - then having looked at the ink prices! whew! I mean GODDAMN! that ink better be made of gold!

and then I read something intrguing on supermediastore.com’s site and I quote: SuperMediaStore is one of few vendors who handle Epson’s Claria inks, probably because Epson competes directly with their vendors, and exercises legally and morally questionable price control over their ink products.

Epson charges slightly less than SuperMediaStore for their product when the user orders directly from them, but I order from SuperMediaStore because Epson and their business practices disgust me. The product is mediocre at best – cartridges containing a few drops of water-based ink that smears and runs when exposed to moisture, colors that approximate what you see on your computer screen; and all for a cost that staggers the imagination. The only reason I use their printers is their proprietary CD label printing process (which they apparently license to others at a price that guarantees there will be no competition. I look forward to the day when Epson’s patents expire and competition might return to the marketplace.

is this true? is Epson prevnting other manufacturers from selling “their” DVD hubs? I mean surely it wasn’t Epson’s idea to print on disks.


#135

I came across a batch of 9 year old Prodisc manufactured CD-Rs that were going south. Asked my sister to check if any of her CDs were playing up. While looking, she found a few 7 year old TDK (CMC OEM) discs that she’d put paper labels on that were unplayable from about half way on. I didn’t have luck ripping them either (locked @ 4x), even tried Winamp’s disk writer plugin which worked on some of the above mentioned Prodiscs. Decided to try removing the labels. Wet the paper and rubbed it off, then used Brasso to get rid of the glue. Bob’s your uncle. Both discs ripped at full speed.

I should mention that the TDK discs had a good quality surface layer,so be careful. I lost a Verbatim CD-R in the early days just by spilling a glass of water on the desk. Only try this as a last resort.


#137

Never used 'em.


#138

I never used labels on DVD only some on CD-R.
And although all are still playable (after more than 10 years, record date was March 2002) quality scans of these discs show big differences. (I have only some discs with label).
So I assume that labels are a potential media killer in generally - not only for DVDs.




#139

Our bad experiences were on CDs that were splintered - actually broken - with wagon-wheel-spoke cracks from the center-hole. Yet the same brand-batch of CDs with hand-written labels were fine.

The ‘splintering’ crack-causes were never well-understood - the paper obviously shrunk, over time, and the powerful gluing agent refused to allow any ‘give’ - so it broke the plastic instead of tearing the paper label with its gluing compound. Hard to believe, but out of several thousand backup disks, there were 200 of these cracked ones. Not a high percentage, but far too many to ignore. And exactly which backup disk does anyone want to lose?

In the last ten years, when I’ve seen others’ paper-labeled disks, I see the occasional bubble. They of course assert that wasn’t there “when it was done” so this is obviously a gas-discharge bubble from within the gluing agent’s own chemistry, creating a gas pocket at some low-resistence location. This may have nothing to do with the data-film’s own aging chemistry, but it will certain impact playability inside a player.

No matter how much Epson charges for ink, it’s still cheaper to use Inkjet Disks plus Epson inks instead of even Kodak’s wonderfully inexpensive inks and a 20-or-30 cent label per disk.


#140

I’ve got some Memorex disks from 2009 (also burnt in 2009) with the label preapplied - I don’t remember that I stuck the labels on myself.

The result? Very high errors, PI in the region of 500-1k. I didn’t bother letting the Nero quality test finish. I’ll be transferring the data over to new disks.


#141

[Only 1 post so can’t edit posts yet I think]

I always assumed it was iffy CMC media, not paper labels. It could have contributed to the poor quality I guess.


#142

I just came to realize that I had blamed my music CDs made back in year 2000 onto bad media. The blanks were SMART BUY CD-R 12x Silver. They were pretty inexpensive at the time. And I had never heard of any way to test them except to play them back on a CD player. If I didn’t get a coaster from the get-go, I was a happy camper.

Now I have about 50 coasters. (But the labels look good.:iagree:)
I found two or three of this same batch that were not labeled. Using Nero Speed Test, they scan and have very few errors.

My conclusion is that I will NEVER use sticky labels on CDs or DVDs…
No doubt in my mind that sticky labels ruined them. :a