SSD Users- Virgin Media Security installs PerfectDisk 10

Virgin Media now has a customer base of several millions, many of whom use their free security software on broadband. This installs,amongst other things PerfectDisk 10. This is not pointed out by VMS anywhere. PerfectDisk is a defrag prog which runs in the background in VMS.

If one has a ssd on their computer, this is not good according to senior forum members. Running defrag wears the NAND whilst it writes apparently.

If one googles “Virgin Media Security installs PerfectDisk 10”, this will show links to some interesting forums. The Mis-Use of Computers Act is mentioned by members there for instance and progs being installed by " stealth"!!

I have an ssd installed myself and am concerned.

PerfectDisk is a product marketed by Raxco Inc. a USA company by the way.

Windows 7 users will know that Windows defrag is automatically disabled if the installation detects an ssd. I will wager it does not do this for PerfectDisk.

I am an elderly newbie. What do more expert members think?

In my testing Windows 7 does not disable windows defrag schedule when installed on a SSD. I agree it should be disabled but its not. As far as PerfectDisk is concerned I have used it for years and its the best defrag program out there. It should be able to be set to not defrag SSD’s. PerfectDisk 11 disables Windows 7 defrag schedule during the install and uses a different strategy when defraging SSD’s to limit writes to the drive. I still do not think defraging a SSD does much more than shorten its life though I have run PD11 3 or 4 times on my SSD in the 8 months I have had it.

Bill

[QUOTE=wonderwrench;2566215]In my testing Windows 7 does not disable windows defrag schedule when installed on a SSD. I agree it should be disabled but its not. As far as PerfectDisk is concerned I have used it for years and its the best defrag program out there. It should be able to be set to not defrag SSD’s. PerfectDisk 11 disables Windows 7 defrag schedule during the install and uses a different strategy when defraging SSD’s to limit writes to the drive. I still do not think defraging a SSD does much more than shorten its life though I have run PD11 3 or 4 times on my SSD in the 8 months I have had it.

Bill[/QUOTE]

Thanks for an interesting post. I agree that PerfectDisk is excellent. I too have used it for over three years previous to my ssd upgrade Their server version is used by some very large companies,including internet giants I believe.

Your note that Windows 7 does not turn off defrag and other functions is contrary to what I have read elsewhere. W7 is the first OS to be written with ssd and hdd in mind. All previous systems were based around hdd One always reads conflicting things on forums. I have soon discovered this as a newbie.

Google “Best AVS software” for instance", to open a forum hornets nest This makes life difficult for a beginner anxious to learn

I run XP on a Samung NC10 netbook, mostly for browsing and emails. I have a Pentium 4 based system as a desktop which I rarely use. I have PerfectDisk on this also.as it is still hdd.

My main reason for starting this discussion is that I am a Virgin Media broadband customer and use VMS free AVS software. I was not aware that defrag was bad for ssd’s until pointed out by senior members. My netbook was upgraded from hdd to a Mtron slc ssd by the way.

I must know uninstall VM Security and use something else as it seems to be impossible to turn off PerfectDisk 10 running defrag in the background.

I have contacted Raxc’s tech guys regarding this and await their comments. I am somewhat picqued as last year I paid a supplement for an upgrade to PerfectDisk 11, the latest version. Subject to their answer I am not looking forward to uninstalling VMS. Other VM forums are full of horror stories about the difficulties of this!!

I hope that this discussion is followed up by some Virgin Media customers to see if they have my present dilemma. I gather that you Bill are not Virgin Media. Great gear by the way. As soon as i7 laptop prices come down I will indulge myself.

John

[QUOTE=johnedlord;2566265]Thanks for an interesting post. I agree that PerfectDisk is excellent. I too have used it for over three years previous to my ssd upgrade Their server version is used by some very large companies,including internet giants I believe.

Your note that Windows 7 does not turn off defrag and other functions is contrary to what I have read elsewhere. W7 is the first OS to be written with ssd and hdd in mind. All previous systems were based around hdd One always reads conflicting things on forums. I have soon discovered this as a newbie.

Google “Best AVS software” for instance", to open a forum hornets nest This makes life difficult for a beginner anxious to learn

I run XP on a Samung NC10 netbook, mostly for browsing and emails. I have a Pentium 4 based system as a desktop which I rarely use. I have PerfectDisk on this also.as it is still hdd.

My main reason for starting this discussion is that I am a Virgin Media broadband customer and use VMS free AVS software. I was not aware that defrag was bad for ssd’s until pointed out by senior members. My netbook was upgraded from hdd to a Mtron slc ssd by the way.

I must know uninstall VM Security and use something else as it seems to be impossible to turn off PerfectDisk 10 running defrag in the background.

I have contacted Raxc’s tech guys regarding this and await their comments. I am somewhat picqued as last year I paid a supplement for an upgrade to PerfectDisk 11, the latest version. Subject to their answer I am not looking forward to uninstalling VMS. Other VM forums are full of horror stories about the difficulties of this!!

I hope that this discussion is followed up by some Virgin Media customers to see if they have my present dilemma. I gather that you Bill are not Virgin Media. Great gear by the way. As soon as i7 laptop prices come down I will indulge myself.

John[/QUOTE]

I have just received an urgent email from the Vice President of Raxco. He says the company is not aware ot this.

I have sent you a PM bill as this could become serious.

John

The Windows 7 built-in defragmenter schedule remains in effect even if the OS is installed on an SSD, however, when the event takes place, it only defrags the HDDs (if any) in the PC. For example, in the defragmenter on my Windows 7 installation, it shows that the schedule takes place every Wednesday, but with a status of “Never run” for the OS (SSD) drive and “29/12/2010” for both hard disks.

[B]Defragmentation methods:[/B]

A [B]file defragmentmentation only[/B] process will not have a significant wear on an SSD unless the drive is pretty full. The performance improvement in reading and writing will be negligible.

A [B]file & free-space defragmentation[/B] process has a much more significant wear on an SSD, as files are moved and rearranged towards the start of the drive to leave a large solid block of free space. The improvement on read performance will be negligible. On older non-TRIM SSD models (e.g. G1 drives), you’ll probably get a gain in write performance as new data will be sequentially written instead of as individual fragments to fit inside in the free spaces.

A [B]file optimised based defrag[/B] (e.g. sorted by frequently accessed/modified) has the most severe wear on an SSD, as nearly every file on the drive is moved about such as that frequently accessed files are towards the start and large less frequently accessed files are moved to the end. Again, you may get a small gain in write performance for early non-TRIM SSD models, but you’ll gain no improvement in read performance and cause a rather significant amount of wear on the SSD NAND moving a huge amount of data around.

As far as I’m aware of, PerfectDisk and most other commercial defragmentation tools use a file optimised defragmentation method by default!

[B]Notes:[/B]

On a modern SSD, defragmentation will potentially degrade the performance, as the large number of files being moved around will leave the SSD with plenty of background garbage collection to carry out from all the random write operations, resulting in lower write performance until this process is complete while the SSD is left running idle.

If you need to reduce the size of a partition on an SSD, this is probably the only time that you will need to carry out a free-space defragmentation on an SSD. In order to reduce the size of the partition, there must be no files or file fragments located between the end of the partition and where the new end boundary will be, otherwise you will not be able to shrink the partition beyond where the last file ends.

This does not address the discussion I raised. I will re-state it,

I run xp on a Samsung NC10 with a Mitron slc ssd installed I am a customer, like many others, of Virgin Media fibre optic based broadband service and use their free AVS package, which seems quite comprehensive. I have read recently on a VM forum that VMS installs PerfectDisk 10, which is a defrag program. The defrag runs in the background. This it seems would wear the NAND. The installation of PD10 is NOT made known to users of VMS.

It now seems advisable for my to uninstall the Virgin Media Security and replace it with an alternative. I am a newbie. Is this a correct supposition?

I am a fan of Perfect Disk and have used it for years on my hdd based desk top PC. The server version is used on many servers including some internet giants. It is marketed by Raxco, an American company. This is not my issue.

VM forum members who use ssd’s are incensed and have quoted the Mis-use of Computers Act 1990. and “installation by stealth”.

I have been in contact with Raxco and just received an email from their Vice President of Sales that he is unaware of VM’s use of PD10. I have replied giving him web links and await their investigation and reply.

It could get interesting if Raxco have not sold VM the rights!!

I shall be obliged for advice on my dilemma especially from Virgin customers. Do I uninstall VMS?

John

Just had another email from Raxco. An employee based in the UK “will be contacting Virgin to discuss this further and will pleased to update you on this matter”.

They thanked me quite profusely and have obviously followed up the web links I provided. This might rather suggest that something is afoot. We shall see!!

John

Just noticed on the Guardian web site that Virgin Media had a customer base of 4.78 million by the third quarter of this year. This site has a membership of almost half a million. There must be some Virgin broadband customers out there! Again, should I uninstall VMS? Please help! My NAND must be suffering.

John

You can probably just un-install PD (Perfect Disc) from Windows control panel / add remove programs/applications.
That way you can use the rest of the Virgin applications.

This is not possible. It does not show up separately in Add/Remove. It is installed with WMS which contains dozens of filese and folders, None of these mention PD10 or Raxco, the marketers.

If you google " Virgin Media Security installs Perfect Disk", you can log on to the appropriate link displayed. Look for community virgin media com/security… There are dozens of entries if you also search under Raxco additionally. Forum moderators are contributors also. There are some very angry Virgin customers as you will see.

A forum leader states that PD10 is necessary for some of the VMS functions to work. Some contributors seem to be also employed by Virgin

Raxco now have this under investigation as you will see from the previous posts of this thread…

They are keeping in touch with me It is not appropriate to go into any possible financial implications concerning Raxco/Virgin nor do I wish to do so at this time. I would just add that PD10 cost puchasers, including me approx $28 about 18 months ago. The latest versione is PD11, for which I paid a supplement as an upgrade. This is for a single user. I have already mentioned the size of Virgins customer base!!! PD11 was installed by me before the latest VMS was available for download. I have of course deleted these folders, but defrag remains as part of VMS

I must mention that I have no axe to grind with Virgin. My landline, TV package and broadband is with Virgin Media. I also have three mobiles with Virgin Mobile Two of these are for my grandchildren and alone cost me £50 per month. I could n’t be more “Virgin” if I tried!! I am a fan of fibre ooptics. I was witha telecoms company before I retired and this was a big part of our business.

I feel that there is still a long way to go before the two companies concerned finish any necessary negotiations.

John

If they’re checking for licencing with Virginmedia, they’ll actually have to check Radialpoint as it seems that the VM solution is provided by Radialpoint, and also uses Kaspersky antivirus technology.

Good point. I did not know this. Raxco are a big company and will have their own legal eagles which is normal in America. Americans are noted for loving court actions. This is why “attorneys” there are so rich.

I woulld like to stress again that defrag runs in the Background in VMS and there seems not way known at present to disable it. This is really the main point of this thread. I am surprised that other Virgin broadband customers have not posted here. Perhaps it is earlly days yet. I am new to all this.

John

[QUOTE=Matth;2566721]If they’re checking for licencing with Virginmedia, they’ll actually have to check Radialpoint as it seems that the VM solution is provided by Radialpoint, and also uses Kaspersky antivirus technology.[/QUOTE]

I cut and pasted this and sent it to the VP of Sales at Raxco, as we were already in touch.

The VP must feels it is important, as he replied immediately that he had received the cut and paste. His reply was via DROID, whatever that is.

John

DROID is apparently some Motorola software for handling emails on a mobile. Seems popular with American businessmen anxious to keep abreast of things whilst off-line. It’s easy looking things up on the web, isn’t it, even for a beginner.!!

John

Another interesting one http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21786063-Bell-Internet-Security-Services-which-AV-are-they-using

Radialpoint is essentially a system integrator. They purchased rights for software use from various companies and provide an integrated product that they sell to Bell and others.

[B]In earlier versions there was a copyright notice for the defrag software, PerfectDisk from RAXCO Software.[/B]

This definitely relates to Radialpoint, used as a bundle by MANY ISPs, raher than to Virginmedia in particular, and I can see them having a very expensive time if they’ve kept using Perfectdisk and not kept the licence up.

Finally:


Are there any default actions Radialpoint Internet Security Services will perform automatically? Most services can be scheduled to run automatically. By default, Radialpoint Internet Security Services will automatically perform the following tasks:
•Scheduled scan for viruses of all local drives - weekly, on Saturdays
•Scheduled scan for spyware of all local drives - weekly, on Sundays
•Scheduled computer tune-up - [B]disk defragmentation - monthly, on a predetermined day[/B]
Scheduled backup is not turned on. If you turn on scheduled backup, the default is: all categories selected - weekly, on Fridays.

Of course, what you actually get to use, may not be the whole bundle

Very interesting. I have drawn Raxco’s attention to this latest posting.

Raxco are sending copies of emails I are exchanging with them to other department members. in the Uk and USA.

The plot thickens!

John

http://www.raxco.com/support/kb/835

I don’t have any SSD,s but I can comment that by taking certain steps during setup you can avoid fragmentation that you would subsequently need to defrag to eliminate.

One thing I do on ALL system setups is create a small 2gb-3gb partition exclusively for the stand alone e-mail program.

e-mail programs tend to be very “dirty” when it comes to fragmentation (the individual emails are NOT saves as individual files, but the In, Out & Sent items folders are large files that grow every time the program is opened or closed… isolating this program behavior from the System partition saves a lot of “mess”

With an SSD this would for obvious reasons become more important than on a conventionel HDD.

AD

With the utmost respect from a newbie, to a senior member, this is not a Virgin Media matter. It is obviously very good advice but would it not be better under a defrag thread? I am sure our defrag gurus, who are not following this discussion, will miss it. This would be a pity. They would find it interesting, Or would it be better under another SSD thread? I will leave this to members better informed than me.

The Virgin Media topic may get more complex and should not perhaps. be made too compicated to follow. Raxco, mentioned many times here, are following this thread both in the USA and UK

I hope this does not not offend. I am anxious not to appear a newbie overstepping the mark.

To stay on topic, I have had an email today from Raxco’s Vice President of Operations. I will update followers of this thread shortly regarding this and my reply tp him

The VP of Ops at Raxco is Joe Abusamra. He is also an author,a leading authority on defrag and widely published. If one googles “Raxco-Joe Abusamra” , defrag gurus will find lots to interest them. He is a newcomer to my emails with Raxco. Perhaps the matter has escalated at Raxco Inc!!

This leaves the issue of our defrag guru members, not following this thread perhaps missing out. I sure that someone can remedy this if thought necessary.

Just a little tit-bit. Raxco are going to “open a new dialogue with Radialpoint regarding their customer base” as Joe Abusamra puts it in his email to me. Radialpoint, (see earlier posting) , have licenced the use of PerfectDisk10 to Virgin Media as summised earlier in the thread. Maybe Raxco undersold the product, in view of Virgin Media’s broadband five million customer base!

I will update followers of this thread very soon, as mentioned previously.

John

John

I would like to if it possible to “cut and paste” emails in Replies. Please do not point out that this is not the time and place!! The results will be used in this thread, so there!

If it is, please give me simple directions. Remember, I am an ancient retired accountant and not a computer buff. Quite new to computers in fact compared to most members, I suppose

The reason I ask is that I would like to “cut and paste” Raxco’s last email to me, and my reply to them. This would fully update this thread in a simple way.for me, and would be quite succinct.

At my age I am entitled to pace myself! Joke, I am as fit as a fiddle, keen fell walker,ten miles a Sunday man, and have an aunt who is one hundred and two. She is my late Dad’s younger sister, Hope it’s in the genes!! On the other hand, Dad died at seventy. He smoked like a chimney (Woodbines, for older members)and we weren’t aware of the risk the You can’t win them all as the saying goes.

Remember to keep the “cut & paste” help simple. If an email reply is more appropriate, I am sure that my email address is available somewhere on the site. Please use "press this then that phraseology!!

I would like the member/s who first introduced Radialpoint to this threadto see the emails particularly. As you may remember the first person who contacted me from Raxco knew nothing of the Virgin Media link with PerfectDisk10.

Wonder if that was detrmental to his career. He was in Sales! The VP in fact. Say no more!

John

PS. Why do these little figure at the side, as I type, keep trying to attract my attention?? I still love watching cartoons with the grandkids!!