Splitting on two discs, the transcoder is always working

Hello to all.

I’m trying to backup Star Wars IV, V and VI by splitting them on two DVD-5 discs for maximum quality. I have the same kind of problem with all of them (also with other long movies like Lord of the Rings).
My question is, why is the transcoder still enabled in these cases? I can see clearly in the bitrate window the original and the transcoded difference. Aren’t two single layer discs enough to hold a dual layer one? I’m using the latest versions of CloneDVD and AnyDVD.
I made another test, just to be sure. I used DVDShrink to re-author the DVD, by selecting only the main title, removed the french language and some subtitles. The output size of DVDShrink was around 6.5 Gb on my harddrive. I was sure like this it is going to work, after all, two single layer discs are holding more information than 6.5. No? Well, I launched CloneDVD, thinking to split it like this on two single layer discs. No way. Using the scissors to split the movie in two, I can never reach a situation when both of the parts are not transcoded… Why is it like this, can somebody enlighten me?

Thank you for your help. I tried to find this information posted in this forum but couln’t find it, sorry if it was already discussed in the past and I missed it.

Hm… maybe i am missing something, but i thought CloneDVD is not able to split Movies?

Oh yes, it is very able to do it :slight_smile: In fact that’s why I’m using it… Click on a title and then on the scissors on the left, then drag the arrow to select only the chapters you want (it even tells you then exactly the chapters that will be included or removed).
Funny thing is I let CloneDVD create the first ISO image (the transcoder was on) and the size of the final ISO was around 3.4 Gb. Why didn’t it create an ISO of 4.7 Gb but with no transcoding?

try to do the same again but define in the start window a user defined target size of 9000mb instead of DVD-5

I tried it mpdox, and saw what you meant about transcoding. But the quality slider at the bottom says 100 per cent, so I don’t think it really matters if it transcodes. You said the first ISO was 3.4 Gb, so I assume the second would be 2.1 using the 6.5 Gb selection. If they both come out at 100 per cent quality, isn’t that what you want?

Sorry, I meant 3.1 for the second one. I played around with this, and split a big disc, about 8 Gb, and found this works pretty good. Didn’t know you could split a disc with CloneDVD until now. The only thing that is a little funny is that it still puts the main menu on disc 2, so you have to select “play movie” to start it, but then it starts with the chapter where it was split.

When making the second disc, uncheck the “Preserve Menus” box in CloneDVD and the movie will start when you put it in.

100% quality is indeed the desired goal. the question is, which is correct: the quality bar showing 100% or the lower bitrate noticed by mpdox?

mpdox,

what are you using to check the bitrate? did you remove anything at all from the original – languages, subtitles, etc.?

have you tried frisk’s suggestion of setting the target size to 9000mb? is the transcoder still enabled? is the bitrate still lower?

bwisialo, mpdox was talking about the bitrate window in CloneDVD. I redid disc 2 and removed the “preserve menus” like you said, and while doing it I saw the slight difference in the bitrate window that he was talking about. It is a very small difference though. Thanks for the tip about the menus, didn’t think about that.

Olli, if you are out there, I have a question about this topic. I split a 7.55 Gb DVD( actual size, a little over 8 GB). CloneDVD transcoded both halves and I ended up with two 4.5 GB ISO’s. Target was set at 4.7. Why do the two ISO’s end up larger than the original DVD, even after a small amount of compression? I changed the target to 9 GB which disabled the transcoding, but the ISO’s were even bigger at 5.2 GB. I also tried splitting to a folder, using the 9 GB target, but it was not much smaller at 4.97 GB. Why do you end up with more than the original size when splitting? Does it have something to do with the compression technology on a commercial DVD? I also left out DTS and all languages except English when splitting, so that made it a good bit smaller than the 7.55 GB reported in explorer.

my mind must be going. i vaguely recall seeing the bitrate in clonedvd at one time, but now i can’t seem to find it. i thought it might be under the “log” tab, but that’s just a list of processes. how do you get clonedvd to show you the bitrate? i’m running clonedvd 2.4.5.4.

You need to click on the picture of Olli(the sheep) and it will change to the bitrate window.

that did it. thanks.

Hello to all, again.
Thank you for your advice.
I tried again last night, with Star Wars IV (not removing anything, only unchecking the second angle - it has two main titles of the same size) and this time I set the target size to 9000 Mb. First ISO chapters 1 to 28, second ISO chapters 29 to 51. Finally I saw in the log window for both ISOs the desired Target size enough, transcoder disabled. :iagree: The first ISO created was 4.5 Gb and second one 3.X Gb (I can’t remember now exactly, I’m at work).
I noticed something strange in the bitrate window thought. At the first ISO, after 54% was completed, the bitrate window dropped to almost 0, like it was transcoding heavily (only o few pixels were shown with orange, the rest of the bitrate was brown). Hmmm. :confused: I let it complete it, started to make the second ISO, the same problem in the bitrate window (almost all of the graphics shown was in the darker colour, with a few brighter pixels at the bottom). Nevertheless, since in both of them I had the message transcoder disabled, I didn’t worry too much about the bitrate window, I burned the ISOs on two +RWs, played and everything was OK (to my eyes). My opinion is that the bitrate window can’t be trusted fully… Or I’m missing something maybe.
Now, for the question of why I want so much to have the transcoder disabled, even that maybe the difference wouldn’t matter, I say, if I have the space enough (two DVD-5) why not play it the safest? It’s working faster also on my computer, 15 minutes versus 45 minutes (when the transcoder is enabled)… The problem when transcoding, I watched the the bitrate window when I didn’t know to put the target size 9 Gb, it was that sometimes it looked like the transcoding was removing a lot (maybe at scenes with a black screen, who knows). Generally it is OK, only a few pixels distance, but sometimes not… That’s why I wanted to find a way to have the transcoder disabled and have a warranty that I have the same original 100% movie splitted on two discs…

Thank you again to all of the people here, nice forum by the way…

Hello bwisialo.

Yes, if you read my previous post, I did some tests and by setting the target size to 9000 Gb made CloneDVD disable the transcoder for both discs outputing two ISOs of 4.5Gb and 3.XGb which I burned with Nero and played very well in my DVD Player…
On the bitrate window I noticed a slight problem, either it looked like not transcoding anything, either as transcoding heavily (only a few - 1 or 2 - bright pixels at the bottom of bitrate graphics)… I don’t know what to think of it, but I remember reading in a post by Olli that if CloneDVD is writing in the log window transcoder disabled then it really means it is disabled. Maybe it’s a small bug with the bitrate window, that’s all. I would like to get a confirmation on this, if the transcoder is disabled then the bitrate window matters or not?

Thank you…

mpdox is right. i might have an explanation. first, here’s what i tried.

when i put in a source dvd that’s between 4.6 and 4.7 gb, the transcoder is disabled and the bitrate is identical to the original. that seems normal.

but here’s what happens when i put in a source dvd larger than 4.7gb… let’s say i select enough chapters so that when i move the target size from 4.6gb to 4.7gb, the quality bar goes from 99% to 100%. so, i set the target to dvd-5, the quality bar says 100%, but when i go to write, the bitrate is lower than the original.

let’s say i select enough chapters so that when i move the target size from 4.3gb to 4.4 gb, the quality bar goes from 99% to 100%. i set the target to dvd-5, the quality bar says 100%, but when i go to write, the bitrate is lower than the original.

the bitrate wasn’t identical to the original until the chapters selected hit 100% between 4.2 and 4.3 gb. oddly, the transcoder was still enabled. the transcoder wasn’t disabled until the chapters selected hit 100% somewhere below 3.0gb, but i didn’t try to pin in down exactly since the bitrate was identical to the original anyway.

so, then i went back to my first set of chapter selections – i move the target size from 4.6gb to 4.7gb and the quality bar goes from 99% to 100%. then i set the target size to 9.0gb and go to write. the transocder is disabled – the bitrate is identical to the original – but when i get to the writing stage the data is too large for a 4.7gb disc. so, the compression is indeed necessary to get it onto a 4.7gb disc.

this might be why: when you cut chapters with clonedvd, it doesn’t remove the chapters entirely. it creates black screen for the chapters that you cut. you can see this if you watch the windows for the i-frames, p-frames, and b-frames. clonedvd creates i-frames for the cut chapters rather than remove the chapter entirely, and this takes up some data space.

however, it would be nice if, in future versions of clonedvd, the quality bar displayed 100% only when the bitrate is going to be identical to the original. better yet, it would be nice if clonedvd remove the chapters in their entirety.

what you are seeing (when the bitrate displays almost all brown and a few pixels of orange at the bottom) is what i described in my post:

when you cut chapters with clonedvd, it doesn’t remove the chapters entirely. it creates black screen for the chapters that you cut. you can see this if you watch the windows for the i-frames, p-frames, and b-frames. clonedvd creates i-frames for the cut chapters rather than remove the chapter entirely, and this takes up some data space.

If the transcoder is disabled, then the copy will be identical to the original. However, CloneDVD will still create black screens for the cut chapters, which will display almost all brown (rather than orange) in the bitrate window.

beware: setting the target size to 9.0gb won’t always work!

so, then i went back to my first set of chapter selections – i move the target size from 4.6gb to 4.7gb and the quality bar goes from 99% to 100%. then i set the target size to 9.0gb and go to write. the transocder is disabled – the bitrate is identical to the original – but when i get to the writing stage the data is too large for a 4.7gb disc. so, the compression is indeed necessary to get it onto a 4.7gb disc.

sorry for the multiple posts. i was writing mine just as mpdox was writing his/hers.

beware: setting the target size to 9.0gb won’t always work!

Depending on what you mean…

It’s a solution on how to disable the transcoder!!!
(For what reason ever you want/need to do this)

but of course for splitting the disc the problem occurs that you not exactly
know where you have to split the disc. And it might occur that one part of
the split is to big to fit on one Disc.

Anyway I guess setting the target size to 9000mb was a good hint for mpdox