Software to reveal manufacturer

Hi,

There used to be a small utility that revealed the true manufacturer and dye used by reading the blank media in the drive. Apparently this was for SCSI drives only. Anything like this for IDE drives?

Apparently a “quality” name brand uses a variety of factories and materials that aren’t spelled out on the package.

Best
Stuart

Thanx to BoSkin I discovered this:CDR-Identifier v.1.63 /gs

Originally posted by Snezin

There used to be a small utility that revealed the true manufacturer and dye used by reading the blank media in the drive. Apparently this was for SCSI drives only. Anything like this for IDE drives?

Apparently a “quality” name brand uses a variety of factories and materials that aren’t spelled out on the package.

Nero CD Speed > Extra > Disc Info :

Manufacturer : Taiyo Yuden
Code : 97m24s01f
Disc Type : CD-R
Usage : General
Recording Layer : Dye Type 1: Long Strategy (Cyanine, AZO)
Recording Speed : n/a
Capacity : 79:59.72 703 MB
Additional Capacity : n/a
Overburn Capacity : 83:50.05 (736 MB)

CDR Identifier ( already mentioned by gene_simmons ) :

ATIP: 97m 24s 01f
Disc Manufacturer: Taiyo Yuden Company Ltd.
Reflective layer: Dye (Long strategy; e.g. Cyanine, Azo etc.)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 72f / LBA: 359847)

Smart-Burn Media Check Simulator

This Disc is designed for CD-RW/COMBO Drive Only.
Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Cyanine
ATIP Lead-in = 97m 24s 01f
Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 72f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = Taiyoyuden DX-dye
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 40X

u may download SmartBurn utility. download it from www.liteonit.com

it works with all burners, not only liteons.

I understand that the plates which are used to stamp the blank CD-R’s are sometimes resold to different manufactures, so that is not possibly to be absolutely sure of the manufacture. Those utilities which display the ATIP information are about as good as your going to get.

Originally posted by BlackWolf
I understand that the plates which are used to stamp the blank CD-R’s are sometimes resold to different manufactures, so that is not possibly to be absolutely sure of the manufacture. Those utilities which display the ATIP information are about as good as your going to get.

never heard of such a thing. can you explain more. :bow:

@TerminatorShawn: “never heard of such a thing. can you explain more.”
I’m not exactly sure where I read that, possibly from one of the moderators on this forum, CD-Freaks, mentioned it. Part of the purpose of my post was to solicit more information on this matter because it is of interest to me. I tried a search on the moderator that I thought mentioned it and basically he has just too many post to easily find it, even if I read it here. I’ll search more, here and one the web as time permits. If anyone reading this has knowledge about this, please post.

Here’s some info…

So… how do you tell who really made a piece of media? The short answer is: you don’t.

It’s tempting to believe that CD-R media identifier applications (e.g. section (6-2-9)) will give you the answer you need. Unfortunately, the data you get is unreliable at best. Charles Palmer, from cd-recordable.com, had this to say about the manufacturer identification:

"Two components that many users of these programs always take as gospel are Media Manufacturer and Dye Data. These two readings are next to worthless.
The reason for this is that many CD-R manufacturers (like CD- Recordable.com) purchase their stampers (the nickel die that all CD-R substrates are molded from) from 3rd party sources. These 3rd party sources (either other disc manufacturers, or mastering houses) encode the data that these ‘Identification’ programs read, at the time that the original glass master is encoded. The ‘Manufacturer’ information that is encoded is usually the name of the company that made the master. Since stampers made from that master will be sold to disc manufacturers the world over, all of discs that those manufacturers produce from those stampers will contain the same ‘Manufacturer’ information. Information which is obviously quite erroneous and irrelevant. Very seldom will the ‘manufacturer’ information encoded on a CD-R actually tell you anything other than who made the original master. […]

The second piece of data (the dye type) is also dubious. Because most master/stamper configurations are designed to be matched to specific dye types (Phthalocyanine, Cyanine, Azo, Etc), the ‘Dye’ information that is encoded when the master is produced indicates the type of dye that the master was designed for. This of course, does not assure that the manufacturer that buys and uses this stamper will be using it with the dye that it has been designed for. It is quite possible that a stamper/dye combination is used by a CD-R manufacturer that contradicts the ‘dye’ information encoded on the master. Therefore that information becomes as potentially misleading as the ‘Manufacturer’ data discussed earlier."

The only reliable piece of information in the “ATIP” region is the disc length. See section (2-38) for further remarks.

Thanks to all who replied.

CDR Identifier doesn’t want to recognize my Cendyne IDE drive.

Nero doesn’t show this info (but maybe my fault).

Smart-Burn Media Check Simulator works like a charm.

But the post from joelmon makes me think it’s all for nothing. Any one find reliable, long lived media?

Best

Stuart

By the way, my post was from Andy McFadden’s site at…

http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq.html

sorry not to include credit earlier…

@joelmon: Thanks for the info, that’s what I read and probably where I read it, it’s obviously been awhile. Here is a link to the exact section on Andy McFadden’s site. I don’t think it would have come to me so easily without your help. http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq02.html#S2-33
I guess this begs the question: With respect to determining the manufacturer, how good is the ATIP information?

However when I use one of those utilities to check the ATIP and is comes back with Taiyo Yuden, I feel more assured about the quality of the CD than if it says Ritek. So where does this leave us?

I use Mitsui discs with the hope and understanding that THEY DO manufacture their own product…

I use Fuji, made in Japan(hopefully TY) for trading and “throw around” usage…

I’ve never had a problem with Mitsui…but then again, I havent’ been doing this for too long…

thanx joelmon & BlackWolf.

Your posts broke a big myth. :bigsmile:

I feel from now on that there is no need to find the manufacturer of a cd-r now as it is not true.

@TerminatorShawn:“I feel from now on that there is no need to find the manufacturer of a cd-r now as it is not true.”

Sorry you feel that way, I just don’t take the ATIP readings from disc which come from questionable sources as the absolute truth. I feel such things should be taken with some degree of skepticism. You can now read the origional source and judge it’s veracity for yourself.

Originally posted by TerminatorShawn

Your posts broke a big myth. :bigsmile:

What myth ? :confused:

Many of the “big name” media manufacturers don’t actually make their own media. Instead, they buy from other manufacturers and stamp their logo on the discs. Generally speaking, this isn’t a bad thing, because the discs were certified good enough that the Big Brand was willing to put the company name behind the product.

Very seldom will the ‘manufacturer’ information encoded on a CD-R actually tell you anything other than who made the original master

  1. Things like that have been known for ages. I mean, the manufacturer and the vendor/the brand are 2 separate things.
    That’s right, the “big names” like Maxell, Sony, TDK , Plextor, Philips, HP, BASF etc. have always stamped their logos on the Taiyo Yuden. So, what’s so revealing about that ? :confused:

  2. Yes, when determining the ATIP ( Maxell and HP CDRs in my case ) I didn’t expect to see anything other than who made the original master , i.e. Taiyo Yuden ATIP: 97m 24s 01f :wink:

So, just avoid buying stuff from questionable sources ( as BlackWolf put it here ) and you won’t be exposed to risk to be cheated.

Hi,

This started because I discovered that my branded TDK CD-R bought from a reliable retail outlet and generally considered (I thought) a quality disk, checked out as Ritek with PhthaloCyanine dye (the least desireable, I’m told).

So…this leaves me clueless as to what brand & where to buy.

FWIW

Stuart

According to what i read, I understood the following

Even if the ATIP shows XYZ manufacturer, the media may still be manufactured by some other manufacturer say ABC.

This makes ATIP info useless.

Well, i didn’t know this.

I certainly know that Big brands to rebadging.

@BoSkin thats my myth.

Originally posted by Snezin

Ritek with PhthaloCyanine dye (the least desireable, I’m told).

Stuart
Stuart,

throw stones at the one who told you this ! :bigsmile:

Mitsui’s Patented Phthalocyanine (tha-lo-cy-a-neen) dye has several advantages over others: More responsive to the writing laser so cleaner, better defined pits are created. Longest lifetime of any photosensitive dye More transparent, contributing to Mitsui’s high reflectivity What does this mean for you? Cleaner pits means fewer errors. Higher reflectivity means better compatibility among readers. Longer life…300 years is, for all intents and purposes, forever. (estimated lifetime is 300 years for our gold CD-R and 100 years for our silver)

Mitsui’s Patented Phthalocyanine

Originally posted by TerminatorShawn

Even if the ATIP shows XYZ manufacturer, the media may still be manufactured by some other manufacturer say ABC.

This makes ATIP info useless.

ROTFLOL

According to the above ATIPs, i.e ATIP: 97m 24s 01f Disc Manufacturer: Taiyo Yuden Company Ltd. ,
there is the only one manufacturer in the world that bears such a name ( let’s call it XYZ ).

So, I can hardly imagine that the “big giants” as HP, Philips, Sony, blah-blah-blah…
would ever buy counterfeits from Taiyo YudeM ( let’s call it the ABC-manufacturer ). What’s the point ?

@BoSkin

It seems you didn’t get what i want to say.

Here it is as simple as i could write it:

I know the difference between CD Brands (big names like HP, Sony) & CD Manufacturers (CMC, Taiyo Yuden).

What i understood from reading the above posts is:

Even if ATIP shows CD-R manufactured by ABC Co. It may actually be manufactured by some XYZ Co. & the ATIP shows ABC just because XYZ Co. bought some materials (kinda plates mentioned by BlackWolf) from ABC Co.

Well, i didn’t know that. I thought the Manufacturer displared by ATIP is the real manufacturer of the CD.