Slow write speeds + modern drives + modern media = no good

vbimport

#43

I need an information,

  • For CD-R burned for Audio

what is the suggested speed?

Actually I use the maximum speed that my burner can do and I disable burn proof to eliminate the problem of “pit”

Do you think that is better a 8 x speed for audio cdr?


#44

I usually stay within the range of 16x to 32x for my audio CDs, usually opting for 16x. None of the discs I have written have had much of a problem as long as I used those speeds.

Certain special Plextor drives from about 5 years ago would have special write modes to allow higher compatibility, and locked the drive to a lower write speed (maybe 8x? Maybe lower), but I don’t believe modern burners will even do below 16x, which is fine unless you have issues. There is no need to disable Burn-Proof or anything like that, which I do not believe would help you get better compatibility. (If you have seen something that told you to disable Burn-Proof/buffer under-run protection, please share it with us!)

It’s probably better to avoid 40x or 48x, though, just as a rule of thumb. I actually remember a drive that, with some CD-R marked “for audio”, would actually lock the drive to 32x, even though the disc model information matched that of media meant for writing at 48x or 52x.


#45

Greetings,
I burn music CDs so have interest in this, I was in Staples today and noticed that they had music blank CDRs and blank data CDRs. I asked what the difference was, the music cdr blanks was a little more expensive. It was 80 minutes, speed 48X, and the data blanks are 80 minutes and speed is 52X. The sales person told me that the audio Cd was better for music because of slower burn time, but you guys go way slower, What kind of CDrs do you use and how do you get to that slow speed?


#46

[QUOTE=guit30;2634597]Greetings,
I burn music CDs so have interest in this, I was in Staples today and noticed that they had music blank CDRs and blank data CDRs. I asked what the difference was, the music cdr blanks was a little more expensive. It was 80 minutes, speed 48X, and the data blanks are 80 minutes and speed is 52X. The sales person told me that the audio Cd was better for music because of slower burn time, but you guys go way slower, What kind of CDrs do you use and how do you get to that slow speed?[/QUOTE]

The ONLY difference with the “music” CDRs is that they have the correct flags to be used in home recorders. Recorders cannot use standard CDRs for licensing reasons. The media itself is otherwise identical to anything else which that particular manufacturer makes. The higher price is also due to the licensing fees being paid


#47

An interesting discussion. I’ve been doing some testing on my Sony DRU-800A drive and noticed something interesting. I gave up long ago trying to write at maximum speed (16x for DVDs). I was just getting too many burn failures. I backed down to 12x and reduced the failures quite a bit. I have been using the Verbatim AZO disks.

I noticed that when testing the burning quality using speeds that utilize CAV, that the disks tend to start with a higher number of errors, reduce across the middle and on the 12x burns, rise again at the end. But when utilizing the one CLV speed I have available (6x), the burns are low in errors consistently across the disk.

I suspect that when the burner is doing it’s test burn, it is optimizing the laser based upon the individual burner, individual disk, and current enviromental conditions at a particular linear velocity of the media under the laser. If you maintain that same media velocity under the laser across the disk, it should be optimized at every point on the disk, if the dye is consistent. But when you use CAV, the burner has to adjust the laser power based upon an approximation of what is needed as you burn from one end to the other. That approximation may or may not be optimal across that particular burn.

So it seems to me that whether you use CAV or CLV has more impact on quality than the actual writing speed.

Bottom line though? It’s not difficult to test disks at different speeds yourself. You can measure the quality of disks you burn to keep, you don’t need to make a one time test burn. Just pick the speed that gives you the lowest errors at the speed you have the patience for.

Cheers,
Arnold


#49

Great information here. I was wondering why the internal writer in my computer would error out when trying to record DVD’s at 1 or 2x on 8x+ media and CD’s below 8x. This explains why it refuses to burn at slow speeds or makes coasters. I’ve pretty much settled on buying rated for a certain X speed and burning at half that speed.


#50

I don’t know if you consider 2008-2009 modern drives, but I’ve always gotten my best burns at 4x, with the 1 exception being dvd9’s usually do better at 2.4.


#51

[QUOTE=MooMooMooMoo;2727261]I don’t know if you consider 2008-2009 modern drives[/QUOTE] Since this thread was started in 2008, I’m pretty sure the answer would be “yes”. :smiley:


#52

But hey, thanks for sharing your results. The more input, the merrier. :wink:

Of course, I reckon your burns are…a special case, Moo.


#53

As I have been going back thru my stuff, I have started having problems with some disks, and I am sorry to say that its the 12x and 16x burnt disks that are getting CRC errors starting about half way out on the disk.

Most stuff of any importance I always did 2 burns (often 3 and diff media), always one at 4x and with some the ‘working’ copy was done faster, and I’m sorry to say, but the faster burnt disks are the ones with problems i.e. cant be read for 30-50% (outside) of the disk.

As I said before in the thread I like the drives I like, even if I have quite a pile of drives.
I brought an old computer from someone a while back because it had an unused LG H42N going with it.

So I have to say that I still burn at the same speeds I have been using for 10 plus years 4x and in many cases I am still using the same drives, but some have open/close tray problems, they can still burn a perfect disk …if I can get it in there.


#54

[QUOTE=Lenny_Nero;2776689]As I have been going back thru my stuff, I have started having problems with some disks, and I am sorry to say that its the 12x and 16x burnt disks that are getting CRC errors starting about half way out on the disk.

Most stuff of any importance I always did 2 burns (often 3 and diff media), always one at 4x and with some the ‘working’ copy was done faster, and I’m sorry to say, but the faster burnt disks are the ones with problems i.e. cant be read for 30-50% (outside) of the disk.

As I said before in the thread I like the drives I like, even if I have quite a pile of drives.
I brought an old computer from someone a while back because it had an unused LG H42N going with it.

So I have to say that I still burn at the same speeds I have been using for 10 plus years 4x and in many cases I am still using the same drives, but some have open/close tray problems, they can still burn a perfect disk …if I can get it in there.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I almost always burn at the slowest possible speed. The only exception is occasionally I get a bad batch of discs that will do slightly better at 8x. I NEVER go higher than that.


#55

I honestly can’t entirely agree with that. I have a HUGE array of DVD writers at my disposal, as well as a HUGE collection of media from a large number of different manufacturers to work with.

My experience over the past 20 years has shown that the ideal writing speed for any type of CD or DVD media depends on multiple factors, including the quality of the media, the design and working condition of the writer as well as support for the desired media by the drive manufacturer.

The only time that I would resort to writing discs at low speed is if I’m using low-speed media such as 8X CD-R or 1X-2X DVD-R. Based on my experience, writing 48X-52X CD-R at low speeds (i.e. 1X-8X) will always result in pain, particularly on more modern drives, as will writing 16X DVD+/-R at 1X or 2X on ANY writer. The main advantage of writing at moderate speed (i.e. the highest-possible speed where a CLV writing strategy is used) is that you will end up with a disc with low, consistent jitter across its entirety. Modern CD/DVD dyes are not designed for low writing speeds in mind, and drive manufacturers put more effort into improving high speed writing performance as opposed to low speed writing performance on such media.

With a bit of homework, you can choose a good writer and good media and not have to worry too much about writing quality writing at moderate speeds


#56

[QUOTE=terminalvelocd;2776782]I honestly can’t entirely agree with that. I have a HUGE array of DVD writers at my disposal, as well as a HUGE collection of media from a large number of different manufacturers to work with.

My experience over the past 20 years has shown that the ideal writing speed for any type of CD or DVD media depends on multiple factors, including the quality of the media, the design and working condition of the writer as well as support for the desired media by the drive manufacturer.

The only time that I would resort to writing discs at low speed is if I’m using low-speed media such as 8X CD-R or 1X-2X DVD-R. Based on my experience, writing 48X-52X CD-R at low speeds (i.e. 1X-8X) will always result in pain, particularly on more modern drives, as will writing 16X DVD+/-R at 1X or 2X on ANY writer. The main advantage of writing at moderate speed (i.e. the highest-possible speed where a CLV writing strategy is used) is that you will end up with a disc with low, consistent jitter across its entirety. Modern CD/DVD dyes are not designed for low writing speeds in mind, and drive manufacturers put more effort into improving high speed writing performance as opposed to low speed writing performance on such media.

With a bit of homework, you can choose a good writer and good media and not have to worry too much about writing quality writing at moderate speeds[/QUOTE]

For TY & FTI I use a real Plextor for CD & Optiarc 7200 & 7220 for dvd. The only times I’ve seen improvement going from 4x to 8x or higher is with lower quality media or a bad batch of media.


#57

I was think if you often burn with 8x and above it would spoil the driver. I had 5 years old iHAS 324 Y and from began I always burn at 4x but recently I decided to burn use 8x speed.

I just had burn around 20 dvd and everything looks good but suddenly colorful circle came out on every dvd. Then get error during burn process. I changed back burn to 4x and there are no colorful circle. After done few burn it suddenly can’t detect any dvd.

Now I was use new driver and always use slow speed to burn. The speed of 4x and 6x were ideal for burn dvd.


#58

New to the forum and thank you very much for the post. I always thought I should be writing the disks at the slowest speed to produce a high quality backup.

Now I can save more time and burn more disks.


#59

Welcome to the forum Letofiles. :flower:


#60

So not only RW, but also WORM media is affected
Good to know, thanks.


#61

Maybe, it was caused by changing recording speeds in Z-CLV mode (zoned constant linear velocity).


#62

I am typing on my mobile phone, so I have no error graph screenshot handy, but I scanned a ×16 RiTEKF1 Platinum DVD-R, burned at CAV ×8 by a slim external notebook (for netbooks) SE-208DB drive.

The ×8 is only reached at the outer edge, while the inner edge starts at 3,33×, 2.4 times lower (1.6 for 8cm).

The PIF count was pretty much same overall (around 0 to 5).

The approximate PIE counts:

  • 600 at 0 MB.
  • 550 at 100MB.
  • 350 at 500MB.
  • 300 at 1 GB.
  • 220 at 2 GB.
  • 160 at 3 GB.
  • 120 at 3.5GB.
  • 145 at 4 GB
  • 180 at outer edge.

+R should result into similar error counts (RITEKF16). Same dye.


#63

No surprise: LG BE14NU40 offers only ×8,×12,×16 on ×16 media.

Slim drives offer:

  • 8×CAV.
  • 6×,4×PCAV.
  • 3×CLV.