Should i change my Drive layout?

vbimport

#1

This is my layout:

Primary Master: Harddrive
Primary Slave : JLMS XJ-HD165H
Secondary Master : NEC 2500a
Secondary Slave: Lite-on LTR-52327S

I was thinking about switching my 52327S with my JLMS, would this change anything signifacant? I am thinking about it because when i do DVD scans on my JLMS (Nero CD-DVD speed), if the harddrive does something that takes a bit effort, i get a dip in the scan my DVD-ROM is doing (especially at high speeds). I only do on-the-fly between my JLMS and my LTR…

One more question, if i decide to switch my JLMS and LTR, which should i have as secondary master… My NEC or my JLMS???

Thanks alot :bow: :bow: :bow:

Chris


#2

Wouldn’t have the LTR and HDD on the same cable cause CD burning problems with the LTR?

Whatever the case, whichever drive you have cozying up to your HDD will get screwed, so I guess it’s really a matter what what you want. Based on your description, I’d swap the LTR with the JLMS. I dunno what order is best for the secondary channel. On my computer, my 832S is on master and my 48161H is on slave, even though the 48161H is the faster drive. I don’t seem to notice any adverse effects resulting from the 48161H being slave.


#3

What do you mean, do you think i will have problems burning data cd’s or images from my harddrive??


#4

Although I’ve never tried it, I’d imagine that when burning data from HDD->CD burner, you would encounter the same problems associated with two devices on working on the same IDE channel, as you would if it was copying from optical drive to optical drive on the same IDE channel.


#5

Each channel will only operate as fast as the slowest drive, usually the optical drive at ATA33. This means that your HDD, which will usually be running at ATA100 will have its bandwidth restricted.

With the layout the way it is, you shouldn’t see any benefit or problems from changing the layout. What I would suggest is purchasing an IDE controller card (you can get a reasonable one for around £10 at eBuyer) and putting two drives on that, so seperating your HDD from the optical drives, i.e. one drive on each channel. This should give you a performance increase and let you do on-the-fly CD copies without problem.


#6

Thats a good idea :iagree: Might jsut do that :cool:

Do you mean something like this:

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X3Jldmlld3M=&product_uid=60610

Thanks4urhelp :iagree:


#7

Yes.

I have this one:
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2VsZWN0X3Byb2R1Y3Rfb3ZlcnZpZXc=&product_uid=55943

It has the same IDE controller chip (ITE8212) as my Gigabyte motherboard. Worth bearing in mind that with these you /always/ want the latest drivers. In the case of the above Innovision card, these are not on their website, but on ITE’s site (ite.com.tw).


#8

Do you think that would well for my system (see signiture)???

Have you ever had any problems with it?

Thanks


#9

Should be fine.

Only problem I had was my drives operating in PIO (sloooow) mode rather than UDMA with the drivers from the CD and the Innovision site. A driver update from the ITE site solved this, though. I don’t notice any difference in performance between the onboard IDE and the Innovision card.


#10

Hold on… You just said a load of things my brain cannot process :confused: :bigsmile: . Why would you want to run in PIO mode anywayz???

I might just get one from my local computer fair (5/6 June), problem with that though is if they screw me over, it will be hard to find the person who sold it me :Z


#11

PIO transfer mode goes back to the introduction of IDE. Essentially, the CPU controls all data flow between the devices and RAM in the computer. While this was (and is) bareable with older (slow, <486) PCs, faster data transfer requires more intervention by the CPU.

Therefore, DMA was devised. This provides direct memory access to devices connected to the PCI bus, bypassing the CPU. Therefore, CPU usage is reduced and transfer speeds are increased.

DMA is better than PIO. :slight_smile: (Ultra DMA is faster than DMA ;))

The only reason I can think of, completely off the top of my head, for running in PIO mode is low-level data verification. It’s conceivable someone could write a device driver that would verify data before it’s stored, flagging invalid data to be retransmitted immediately. This may already be done, but it’s an example.

Personally, I never buy from computer fairs. Firstly, you can’t always trust them. Second, eBuyer isn’t that expensive, is a reputable company, and /is/ a company, meaning you do have easy comeback if anything doesn’t work. Although, it does depend on how much you are spending. To lose a fiver is one thing, £200 on a spanking graphics card is another…


#12

Sorry, but this is just not true. Any current IDE controller is full capable of running 2 different UDMA status drives on the same channel.
Likewise, there’s no inherant reason not to run a optical drive on the same channel as a HD or any other device. You have to try it and see what your particular controller does with the drives in question. And nobody here can predict that outcome.

If you want to create more drive ports, your best option by far is to get a Promise or Highpoint PCI controller card and put your HD(s) on that, leaving your onboard IDE channels free for the optical drives. Another good option is an external case for your burner, but again this may not be problem free - you’ll have to try it with your setup to know.


#13

This may well be true, but the principle is correct. It’s not uncommon to have optical drives that still use PIO4 or Multiword DMA (OK, maybe only CDROM), and as we know IDE controllers can’t do PIO+UDMA on the same channel. It has also been my experience of UDMA5 disk performance drops with a UDMA2 drive attached.

You have to try it and see what your particular controller does with the drives in question.
Yup. It /will/ detect the drives’ speed correctly. What speed it operates at is another matter. I find it’s better to simply avoid any faff.

It’s still best to seperate the drives as much as possible to get the best performance.

The only problem with putting your HDD on the controller card is the potential configuration trouble. The OS needs the drivers first, otherwise won’t be able to see itself. I agree, Promise or Highpoint cards are usually a good bet, but are twice the cost of the card I highlighted - which still uses the same chipset as my motherboard. Therefore, it can’t be that bad. :slight_smile: Plus some BIOS’s simply don’t like the lack of a HDD - again YMMV.

And the trouble with an external box is VIA USB controllers. They, quite literally, suxxors (one of the reasons I got an nForce board rather than VIA. I was sick of my graphics tablet turning itself off whenever the ports were polled). Of course, firewire would be fine. But then, you’d need a firewire controller card and the external box, which I haven’t seen for less than £15. :wink:


#14

as we know IDE controllers can’t do PIO+UDMA on the same channel

This is also not true, but is irrelevant to this discussion.

There’s no drivers needed for IDE controller cards, so the HD swap would be pain free. You would just re-set BIOS to boot from the card, in some cases no change would be needed.


#15

If i bought a RAID card would it work in Ultra DMA mode like my other IDE Channels?

Also, i realised just now i would need to buy two more IDE wires if i were to go with MRV’s original idea. How much are IDE wires and does it matter what type you get???

Also i had a look in my device manager to see what mode my IDE controllers were in and i found a 3rd device (see image below). Could you please tell me what this is because i had my computer custom built 4 me… :confused:

Thanks for all your help :bow: :iagree: :slight_smile: :smiley: :bigsmile:



#16

Firstly, to my knowledge it is true. Perhaps YMMV, but a controller will not do PIO and UDMA at the same time. It will operate at PIO. From Microsoft’s Knowledgebase:

The current implementation for SCSI miniports does not allow an IDE controller to transfer both PIO and busmaster DMA intermixed on a single channel. The miniport must either do PIO or busmaster DMA on a channel, not a mix of the two transfer methods. Note that one channel may be set up to do only PIO transfers, while a second channel may be set up to do only busmaster DMA.
This may have changed, but I’m not /that/ au fait with the inner workings of Windows device drivers. And secondly, it is relevant by virtue of the fact that it was being discussed… PIO is a transfer mode like DMA.

There’s no drivers needed for IDE controller cards, so the HD swap would be pain free. You would just re-set BIOS to boot from the card, in some cases no change would be needed.
No drivers for an /onboard/ controller. You do need drivers for an addon card. Otherwise why do they provide a driver disk? And driver downloads? And why does Windows 2K+ setup prompt F6 for a third party controller driver diskette? If the OS does not know about a third-party controller, it will not work. An addon card is set up as a SCSI miniport device. These are not native BIOS devices. Not to mention the fact that the drive allocations would change meaning the OS would break. A motherboard with a built-in secondary controller will usually have the option to boot from “RAID controller” or similar, but the OS still has to know what it is and how to use it.

If i bought a RAID card would it work in Ultra DMA mode like my other IDE Channels?
Yes, but bear in mind a RAID card does not normally support optical drives. You need a card that supports ATAPI devices. Sometimes it is possible to add ATAPI support by updating the card’s BIOS, but to save faff I’d go with a card that says that it supports ATAPI to begin with.

Also, i realised just now i would need to buy two more IDE wires if i were to go with MRV’s original idea. How much are IDE wires and does it matter what type you get???
From eBuyer, about £1 each for a plain ribbon, £2 for a fancy yellow (or blue ;)) round cable. Get one that says ATA33/66/100 or is 80-wire.

Also I had a look in my device manager to see what mode my IDE controllers were in and I found a 3rd device … . Could you please tell me what this is…?
This is the holder for the driver of the IDE controller. This controls the primary and secondary channels you see above it. Your addon card would actually appear in the SCSI and RAID controllers category because of the way the driver is implemented, and the fact a current motherboard can’t have more than two IDE channels on one controller, and a BIOS only supports one controller.


#17

So basically what do i need to ask for when i go into a shop?


#18

Print out the stuff from the eBuyer site, go into the shop and say “I want this, this and this.” You might even get it cheaper. :smiley:

I just realised… why on Earth, aside pedantry, did you pick up on one of the smallest parts of a discussion when it was pretty much sorted? Ack, who cares; it’s intellectually stimulating. :slight_smile:


#19

Ok thanks alot. :bigsmile: I think i’ll get it next Sunday. If i have any problems i’m sure i won’t hesitate to ask LOL :iagree: :stuck_out_tongue: .

Once again thanks for your help :bow:


#20

An “add-on” card for IDE expansion. Tell the guy you want more channels in your PC very cost-effectively. The add-on cards are mostly PCI type.

There are either S-ATA or P-ATA but since all IDE drives you have are P-ATA I assume, you need a P-ATA IDE controller card. Typical IDE add-on cards have two connectors, two separate channels for up to four IDE devices.

If you don’t have extra IDE cables, make sure the add-on card has at least two cables bundled.

One device per channel is best and easiest.