SHM-165P6S: anyone tried dual-layer burns?

[BeHapi2]

I was wondering if the initial gap problem, which severely limits the
readability of single-layer DVD-R media burnt on the "Super AllWrite",
also afflicts dual layer DVDs?

I would like to back up a couple movies, but am reluctant to waste
time and money if the movies can't be read by the player in our
vacation accommodation.

Has anyone tried this with the SHM-165P6S.

BTW it is now more than a month since the test fw was put out.
The LiteOn website still has no fix. I wrote to "customer service"
ages ago. Still no informative reply from them.

I hope that other people are pestering them, too.

They still mindlessly advise you try the drive in another system
when the problem is known, in the company, to be the firmware.

There is a terrible communication problem in the company, which
is unlikely to improve while it absorbs Benq optical drives.

[agent009]

I've burned two MKM 001 +R DL discs in my 165P6S, one with firmware MS0K at 4x, another with MV7U at 6x. Both movies play fine in a standalone Sony player.

[BeHapi2]

Both movies play fine in a standalone Sony player.

Thanks. :flower: You've encouraged me to pick up a five pack.
I'll report back later.

[bichi]

165P6S - MV7U
MKM 001 +R DL @ 8x - Verbatim, x2.4, "up to x6 speed," 10pak, sale, $19.95
ONES v2.0.300 - approx. 7.85gB
SB: on
HT: on
OS: on

• have to figure out why BS/ROM is not set
• hmmmmm... still can't upload PNGs

QUALITY:
http://premium1.uploadit.org/bichi007//165P6S-MV7U-MKM001-DL-on-001-Qual.png

BENCHMARK:
http://premium1.uploadit.org/bichi007//165P6S-MV7U-MKM001-DL-on-001-Bench.png

DIP Scan for comparison sake:
http://premium1.uploadit.org/bichi007//165P6S-MV7U-MKM001-DL-on-001-Qual-DIP.png

[BeHapi2]

Thanks for the scans bichi.

I got a five pack of Ritek D01.
The only other option in the shop was Mitsubishi and
that was double the price... Could have afforded two discs...

I was looking forward to posting a couple of scans myself,
but my first disc is a coaster. Since these cost six times
what I am paying for my TY DVD-Rs, I hope that someone
can help me avoid more expensive trial and error.

The DVDinfo scan before the drive started clicking and
the scan hung (65%) was very nice. Few PIFs and
no peak higher than 2.5.

Below, I have copied some relevant sections from the log.

I set Nero to do burn an ISO of a disc, closed down other apps
and went away to let it get on with at x2.4 (x4 was also and option)

When I returned to the computer, Nero verify had stacked up
consecutive read errors.

It looks like the dual-layer part of the burn did not succeed.
The first part of the disc plays OK.

12:37 Burn started
12:59 Perform layer 1 to 2 jump before wrting at address 2086912 (1FD800h)
13:12 Burn process completed successfully
Data verification started
13:21 #32 SPTI -1128 File SCSIPassThrough.cpp, Line 323
G: CdRom0:SCSIStatus(x02) WinError(0) NeroError(-1128)
Sense Key: 0x03 (KEY_MEDIUM_ERROR)

Messages #33 through to #786 are all basically the same error.

[kg_evilboy]

Ritek DL media = no good choice. They don't show the obvious degradation problems which some batches of G04 and G05 had, but they have a bad compatibility.
The only way to go with DL media currently is Mitsubishi.

[BeHapi2]

Ritek DL ... have ... bad compatibility.

Thanks for the suggestion and the vote for Mitsubishi.
I am reluctant to throw good money after bad...
I have, since actively trying to find a solution to the problem, seen
reports on the Web that Ritek suck.

OTOH the drive recognizes the disc, and even offers to burn it overspeed.
If the type is incompatible, why does the drive try to burn it?
if the disc had lots of errors, I could understand that RITEK was bad media.
The scan of what was burned was excellent.

Because the second layer failed completely, I think that the fault is not with the media. There seem to be three other more likely possibilities:
1. A missed :doh: setting in Nero or elsewhere.
2. A missed setting for the drive (or a firmware SNAFU).
3. Some kind of system conflict.

With four more expensive discs waiting to be burned, I am hoping the
problem is something fixable.

In fact, I should work out those settings, such as SB, that bichi lists.

DL discs are so pricey that it would be cheaper to rent the movies
when I go away!
Only problem is they are unlikely to have them in the rental shops.

[agent009]

I got a five pack of Ritek D01.

OUCH!!

The only other option in the shop was Mitsubishi and
that was double the price... Could have afforded two discs...

Darn, somebody should've warned you.

Two MKM 001s are better than ten RITEK D01s! With Mitsubishi, you get two playable DVDs out of two. With Ritek, you can get up to two good DVDs as well, if it's your lucky day

The DVDinfo scan before the drive started clicking and
the scan hung (65%) was very nice. Few PIFs and
no peak higher than 2.5.

I have never seen a good scan of RITEK D01, so if you have one with max PIF of 2, post it. I will save it and admire it in free time.

Now that attachments are working again, here's what I get with MKM vs. Ritek. [Note scale differences!]

[agent009]

OTOH the drive recognizes the disc, and even offers to burn it overspeed.
If the type is incompatible, why does the drive try to burn it?
if the disc had lots of errors, I could understand that RITEK was bad media.
The scan of what was burned was excellent.

Was it a transfer rate test, or a quality scan? I'd really like to see a screenshot of it.

Because the second layer failed completely, I think that the fault is not with the media. There seem to be three other more likely possibilities:
1. A missed :doh: setting in Nero or elsewhere.
2. A missed setting for the drive (or a firmware SNAFU).
3. Some kind of system conflict.

I use DVD Decrypter to burn DL ISO images. It seems to put the layer break right in the middle, and the resulting burns never failed at layer switch.

With four more expensive discs waiting to be burned, I am hoping the
problem is something fixable.

DL discs are so pricey that it would be cheaper to rent the movies
when I go away!
Only problem is they are unlikely to have them in the rental shops.

You can also split the movie into two SL discs with no quality loss, using DVD Shrink, for example. Then you either need a DVD changer or you'll have to get up in the middle to switch discs.

[BeHapi2]

OUCH!!
Two MKM 001s are better than ten RITEK D01s! With Mitsubishi, you get two playable DVDs out of two. With Ritek, you can get up to two good DVDs as well, if it's your lucky day

OK OK, I won't get any more Riteks!
Thanks for the scans.

But... Have you ever had a complete failure to write the second layer?
I may still get a couple of burns from what I have left, but I am reluctant
to risk coasterification.

I have never seen a good scan of RITEK D01, so if you have one with max PIF of 2, post it. I will save it and admire it in free time.
[Note scale differences!]

I looked at the PNG again, its on the other computer, the one I use for burning, there actually is a single PIF spike that goes above 2.5 otherwise
it is up/down 2 to 1 until 2 GB and then intermittent spikes to 1 until a
patch of spikes to 3 at about 2.3 GB. Then it's down 0 to one again.
The upper PIE graph has a couple of ascents above twenty. The trend is a slight rise to the halfway point (failure point).

[BeHapi2]

Was it a transfer rate test, or a quality scan? I'd really like to see a screenshot of it.

OK Will attempt to attach... Logged on now from my other computer.

I use DVD Decrypter to burn DL ISO images. It seems to put the layer break right in the middle, and the resulting burns never failed at layer switch.

Thanks for the tip

You can also split the movie into two SL discs with no quality loss, using DVD Shrink, for example. Then you either need a DVD changer or you'll have to get up in the middle to switch discs.

I had thought abuot this. OTOH, I have this possibly amazing drive that
can do DL, so I wanted to give it a go. I am itching to use it while I wait
for the firmware upgrade that will enable burning of widely readable
DVD-R discs!

Given the price difference, it doesn't make a lot of sense to burn DL.
Mitsubishi DVD+R DL is a little over ten times the price I play for
Taiyo Yuden OEM Sony DVD-R discs.

[agent009]

Have you ever had a complete failure to write the second layer?
I may still get a couple of burns from what I have left, but I am reluctant
to risk coasterification.

I don't know about Nero settings because I don't use it. [Don't tell anybody but I don't trust their bloated software.]

If you are burning an ISO image, I suggest trying DVD Decrypter or its successor, ImgBurn, once.

Also, burning at 2.4x might help because if your failure is caused by the inability of the drive to begin the second layer, slower RPMs might make that part of the process a little easier for the drive.

My results with DL media so far are:

RITEK D01:
burned 9 discs in 5 drives, one disc in 165P6S
1 burn failed in BenQ DW1655 at layer switch
1 completed burn unreadable in the middle of the second layer
all with very high error rated
some can be fully read at 6-15x CAV, others exhibit serious slowdowns because the errors are not correctable at high speeds

MKM 001:
burned 56 discs in 10 drives, two discs in 165P6S
no failures to burn
no coasters
low to medium error rates, some packs slightly better than others, but overall always good quality
everything is readable at full speed

The only reason I got a 15-pack of Memorex-branded RITEK D01s is because they were cheap. It was an opened pack that somebody returned to the store, and was marked down to $15 [which is probably still more than they are worth].

[agent009]

OK Will attempt to attach...

That looks very good, better than what I had with my RITEK D01s.

The first 4 GB are still in layer 0 where the beam doesn't have to go through the semi-reflective layer, so it's the easiest part of the disc to burn. When the drive gets to the layer switch, it begins hunting for the layer 1 track, trying to focus on it. From your description, it sounded like it failed there, after repeated attempts, probably involving optical pickup movement.

There are two things that might help your next burn, slower speed and not getting too close to the outer edge.

First, slowing down to 2.4x, even if the drive offers you 4x burning, is a good idea, given the first failure.

Second, burning with DVD Decrypter. I don't know where Nero places the layer break [who knows, it may burn to the end of layer 0, like CD-DVD Speed]. DVD Decrypter always places the layer break squarely in the middle, so, if your disc is not the full 8.542 billion bytes, you won't get too close to the outer edge, where vibration is higher, and the track may be harder to focus on.

[BeHapi2]

Thanks for the tips.

Not getting too close to the outer edge... particularly useful.
The ISO image was a little over 7 gigs and the scan was 65% complete,
so it looks like Nero puts the break at the edge.
I thought that this instruction was coded into the ISO data...

In Nero, I was given the option of x2.4 or x4.
I selected the lower speed and would have preferred x2 (which is what
I generally burn DVDs at), but that was not offered.

I don't know why the speed advanced.
The option was not switched on in SmartBurn.

I have used Nero since it first came out, but have been getting a little
frustrated by certain "features." Maybe it is not controlling the burns
as effectively as it should. Or maybe I am not telling to...

As for the Ritek quality... it may have something to do with shipping
grade A quality assured discs to Japan for sale under the Ritek brand.
I am sure that there is a QA iffy zone and products in this zone are
sold either at lower prices or to non long-term customers.

Japanese companies tend to be more strict about QA, although I suspect
that if too many batches fail in a month, some gray zone product gets
shipped to low status markets or discount dealers.

My Sony Taiyo Yudens DVD-Rs have quite uneven circumferential edges...

One day, I may get a scan of a full Ritek D01

[BeHapi2]

That looks very good, better than what I had with my RITEK D01s.

Well this one is probably more like what
you are used getting with Riteks...

I did this one, as recommended, with DVDdecrypter.

The beginning of the second layer is unreadable.

[BeHapi2]

Success at last!

That looks very good, better than what I had with my RITEK D01s.

This one is more like the first disc, but it made it through the second layer.

I maxed out the scaling, and used blocks rather than lines. Makes it look worse, eh? The burn quality is rated 94.45%!

Same set up as last time, DVD Decrypter ISO burn with optimised layer split.
Could the improvement be due to Smartburn/Hypertuning learning how to burn the disc?

[agent009]

Success at last!
This one is more like the first disc, but it made it through the second layer.

One out of three. Burning these bad boys is always an adventure. Think about how boring life would be if everybody used only Mitsubishi media.

Reminds me of the saying, "Real programmers don't use software that always works."

[BeHapi2]

OUCH!!

Darn, somebody should've warned you.

One excellent burn out of four discs...
The last one :sad: just failed at 30%...

Point very much taken.

Life at the bleeding edge...

Now for disc 5/5...

[BeHapi2]

The final disc, burning different data, was somewhere between
the good one and the NAFF.

There's a freedial customer support number on the package.
I may phone and ask if they think that 2/5 is acceptable...

[chef]

Thanks for the scans bichi.

I got a five pack of Ritek D01.
The only other option in the shop was Mitsubishi and
that was double the price... Could have afforded two discs...

Produced for the garbage. Next... coaster. :rolleyes: