Rip Non-Standard CD structure


Hi everybody!

I’m new around here! I know your forum from several years but this is the first time I’m in!

I have lots of experience burning optical media, but I want to ask you experts about some dilema I have since I was a Kid! (15 years ago!)

I want to rip a CD with this structure form the inside out:

The TOC says: 15 tracks:

Track 1 - Data Mode 1
Track 2 - Audio
Track 3 - Audio
Track 15 - Audio

TOC says CD finishes here!!

Now there’s a huge blank zone with nothing in it…

Track 16 - Data? I don’t know…

Real end of the CD

How can I rip this extra track?? Do you know some software I can tell it to read in RAW-mode from sector 1 till the outer edge of the CD (82min), no matter how many tracks it has and ignore completelly the TOC?

Can I call this an Illegal TOC?
My experience tell me an illegal TOC is when the TOC says the CD has more time than in reality. In this case, the TOC says it has less time than in reality! How can I deal with it?

My dream is to RIP this CD and successfully burn a 1.1 copy of it!

Thanks for your help!


Maybe you can achieve something with Truman’s CD Reader.
Unfortunately i don’t have the skills to help/guide you :sad:
Also attached the ahead wnaspi32.dll in case the StarBurn one isn’t working.

P.S.: don’t remember whether this is the latest/last version of the tool.
Have to browse through some old HDDs.

EDIT: removed the obsolete attachments


Hi Terramex…
Thank you for your help.

I heard about that software once but never tried it.
I will give it a try and then I’ll post here some feedback =)


What’s the name of the disc btw. ?
Maybe that last track is just part of a copyprotection ?

EDIT: found the final(?) version on my HDD


If the only problem is an “illegal” TOC, CloneCD should be able to make a “1:1” copy.


CloneCD only “sees” 15 tracks, but there is a hidden 16th track on the outer edge of the CD, after a big empty zone at the end of track 15. Get it? That’s the problem=)

  • open ‘View TOC’ in CD Reader
  • select ‘Full TOC info’ and check ‘Display all sessions’
  • ‘Read TOC’ and please attach a snapshot

You can also check Track 16 in ‘Track Info’.

…what’s the name of the disc ? :wink:


Yes Terramex, the last track is part of the copyprotection.
This is a Sega Saturn CD, and every of this media type, have its copyprotection the same way. (Data track + Audio tracks + Blank Zone without legible sectors + Hidden Track)
I know there’s a lot of information about this on the internet, but I just want to skip it because everybody says it’s impossible, but my experience says it is possible to duplicate on a CD-R and I’m 99% sure about this. The problem is how to achieve that hidden track, as long as the TOC says the the CD ends before it. How to move the laser to read it?
Somebody says on the internet that successfully achieved it and read that sectors, but how to burn it with the rest of the CD?!


[QUOTE=toxic9;2788404]I know there’s a lot of information about this on the internet, but I just want to skip it because everybody says it’s impossible, but my experience says it is possible to duplicate on a CD-R and I’m 99% sure about this.[/QUOTE]I hope you can find that one missing percent in these threads:


Ok, I get it Terramex… it’s nothing new around here.
My theory is this: if this data is readable, it should be writable.
It’s impossible to be other way. The laser is not an “eye” to see if there is a “ring” or whatever you call it… it reads “something”… and it has to be a hidden track. I have dealed in lots of non-standard discs. I have successfully copy 1:1 the Bleem for Dreamcast CD for example.

Maybe there is some software with or without firmware change, that can read and write any CD from sector 0 until sector 360.000, ignoring the TOC…


The brightest minds (Truman, Olli among others) have participated in that discussion - with no final successfull result :frowning:

The programs mentioned are CD Reader, CloneCD, CDRWin - but a lot of additional custom work is neccessary - if at all possible.

Please don’t skip the big thread; it’s very informative and (almost) all participants at least want it to be possible.


Another way of seeing this…
There are lots of software for other pruposes, that can add extra information onto a BIN, ISO (whatever) image.
It could be possible to compile a software that can add, after the final track, some dummy sectors, and then add the hidden track at the correct sector positions. Then we can burn that image on a CD.
But of course we need to have that special track successfully dumped for dreaming of compiling a software like this!


Trust me! It’s all in that thread :slight_smile:


Ok, I will participate in the big thread and try to incentivate people to not give up. Sorry to start a new thread on this topic, but I didn’t noticed your awsome investigation around the Saturn CD.