Reason vs. Love

My spouse always asks me whether I also love her. I always feel the need to define love. Can anyone love another serious and solemn human being without mutual understanding and interest? How can one practice love without being generous, affluent, intelligent, and compassionate? I distrust and dislike love. The most often painful thing is that there is still a long way for us to be one and most of my words sound too empty to her yet. I want our bodies robotized and our minds integrated.

love isnt something thats practiced. and if thats the most painful thing, then my friend, you havent loved and lost.

Actually, I just want her body. The sweet talks of love is obviously used to get her to do kinky stuff… or maybe it’s just me… nm.

I love love, just because it takes the reason away. Just floating away and no need to ask why. Understanding love is imho a useless effort, just because it ain’t possible.

What is love
Baby don’t hurt me
Don’t hurt me
no more

Baby don’t hurt me
Don’t hurt me
no more
What is love
Yeah

Oh I don’t know
why you’re not fair
I give you my love
but you don’t care
So what is right
and what is wrong
gimme a sign

uoh oh…
Oh I don’t know
what can I do
what else can I say
it’s up to you
I know we’re one
just me and you
I can’t go on

uoh oh…
What is love
What is love
What is love
Baby don’t hurt me
Don’t hurt me
no more
Don’t hurt me
Don’t hurt me

I want no other
No other love
This is your life
our time
When we are together
I need you forever
Is it love

uoh oh…

Baby don’t hurt me
Don’t hurt me
no more
Baby don’t hurt me
Don’t hurt me
no more
Baby don’t hurt me
Don’t hurt me
no more
Baby don’t hurt me
Don’t hurt me
no more
what is love?!..

every time i hear / read the lyrics to that song, i think of the two guys on SNL that did the head bobbing.

Originally posted by ckin2001
love isnt something thats practiced. and if thats the most painful thing, then my friend, you havent loved and lost.

Some things I cannot tell openly because there are always my enemies reading my posts everywhere. The marriage itself had been a secret for months which was why I talked about it only in the mod forum here, nowhere else, not even to my own family (and hers).

I said painful because she still feels sorry for her legs even though I told her about it hundreds of times. It is most painful because it matters most to me.

Love means different things to everyone. For example, I haven’t heard a single word of love from my parents for 30 years.

Originally posted by Kenshin
My spouse always asks me whether I also love her. I always feel the need to define love. Can anyone love another serious and solemn human being without mutual understanding and interest? How can one practice love without being generous, affluent, intelligent, and compassionate? I distrust and dislike love. The most often painful thing is that there is still a long way for us to be one and most of my words sound too empty to her yet. I want our bodies robotized and our minds integrated.

You know what they say! If you have to ask…

I am not a marriage counselor or a relationship therapist, but this is my take on this:

You spouse is creating a bad mood by asking if you love her, or not. Also it is bad if you have to define what love is and how much you love your spouse and in what ways you love your spouse.

All I know is love has noting to do with money. I know this very poor couple. They are very happy with very little money and very happy with each other. Source of their happness is not how little money they have but just being with each other.

You are right in disliking love. More importantly you may be disliking the fact that your spouse is asking you about love. Your words are not empty. The whole idea of love is fake and is just a better term describing a trade between two people. What is being traded depends on the parties involved.

Why don’t you start asking the questins your spouse is asking you? Then take it from there.

Perhaps your spouse does truely love you and is able to show you that. Perhaps you too love your spouse, but are not able to express it in a manner your spouse understands or expects.

Look at the things you do or don’t do becasue of your spouse and you may find words that your spouse is waiting hear from you.

Originally posted by ckin2001
every time i hear / read the lyrics to that song, i think of the two guys on SNL that did the head bobbing.

See this movie :slight_smile:

To me, there’s a difference between “being in love” and “love”.
Until about 2 years ago, I only knew “being in love”. I can discribe it as a non-mature, yet very pleasant attraction between two persons. Mostly based on physical/sexual attraction and a vague (mostly naieve) hope for a happy future together. These very strong feelings don’t last forever though. I don’t believe any relationship can stay as intens like it started, all the time.
And this is were “love” enters the picture. At a certain point in the relationship, feelings transform in another, deeper kind. (can be after a year or two, depending on the time spend together).
Not just based on superficial attraction, but also on a very strong feeling of mutual respect, thrust,… This is not the same as a relationship that gets boring!!! :stuck_out_tongue: And the “being in love” feelings aren’t gone at all!! They come back periodically, even more intense because they both feel the strong bond. There’s no link between being in love/love and passion though, this depends on one’s individual lover-qualities :stuck_out_tongue:

And this is what love means to me; it’s a feeling that makes a difference between girls. Being in love can be with “any” girl; it’s more like the natural instinct that forces us to get chicks. Love on the other hand, is a reason why I sticked with my girlfriend and don’t feel I should change.
Took me about 20 relationships to understand this though :stuck_out_tongue:

The way you show love/feelings is hard to say. A simple smile to eachother is enough for us to feel great. Although we both show it quite often in a vocal way too. The best feeling for me however, is when I can tell her I’m in love with her (meaning the original “being in love” that started our relationship). It feels so good, because at those moments, I know I really love her, but still have that non-mature and pure “being in love” feeling as well.

is Lust with plenty of kissing!!!

Kenshin

i agree…it is so damn hard to tell her if you lover her, while nobody really knows what love is.

I just like beeing with my girlfriend, both sexually and non sexually. We are beyond just beeing friends…i guess that is known as love.

Just tell her what you like about her and what her companionship means to you…when she asks again…don’t try to explain what love is…

you asked a difficult question which you only can answer yourself

Alright, I knew I needed to explain further.

Her family objected to her marriage. It seemed as if they wanted her to remain with them forever till death. Moreover, she always seemed to be uninterested in love and marriage even though she clearly wanted both deep inside her hearts. Several years ago, she was going to marry a guy about whom I know nearly nothing. They had dated for years until the guy’s family said NO. They objected her because they thought she was more disabled than him, according to what she told me a few months ago. After that, she gave up.

She also told me again and again that she would “go away” from me if I told her anything about marriage and love. I was very much in love even before then and I was decided to take care of her forever. It remained another secret until I felt confident enough to risk saying it. Finally, I suggested that she leave her home and live with me. It had been her home for well over 30 years. It was her father’s home and also her grandfather’s home. She cannot walk alone, not even on a wheelchair. In South Korea where disabled people are looked down upon like some things lower than other species of non-human animal and discriminated more than foreigners (foreigner itself in the Korean language is somehow a dirty word when spoken by the average South Koreans in their daily language), it is just too dangerous to leave home without protection, personal, physical, and intimate. We then agreed upon her leaving her home to live with me without telling anyone. It was dangerous to do so. We both risked many things very important in the South Korean social system. The decision was easier on me because I already gave up being admitted in the family I was part of in 1989 when I also dropped out of the high school right after the many political-academic events in Gwangju early in the year.

What love is was not a question to myself. I know what love means to myself and it has been that way for about 25 years. As I said before, love means a different thing to every person on the planet. Someone will say it is a shared affection and the feeling of togetherness among all living and non-living things in the whole spacetime and beyond. Someone else will say it is a desire to fulfill one’s sexual needs. I believe both are right.

I cannot force or persuade the millions of contemporary South Koreans sharing this land with us to respect foreigners, youths, the disabled, the poor, and other unfairly discriminated individuals and groups of individuals in a very short time. But I wanted to have at least one or two friends to share my ideas and ideals for life.

Since schools, governments, friends, super markets, subways, buses, airplanes, lawyers, parents, relatives, online forum members, and even her intercast (internet + broadcast) listeners discriminated her because of her legs (it was confirmed she got cerebral palsy in 1974), she automatically feels everyone should. I try a lot to change that. I spend time with her literally for 24 hours. I bought a car even though I never had a driver’s license for the reason I wrote some weeks ago here since it is too miserable and dangerous (a few days ago another disabled person was killed on the subway rail in Seoul) to ride the Seoul-Inchon subway and subway is the safest and most available type of mass transit in South Korea. I rented a clean, new, and large apartment on the first floor next to a large park because that was exactly what she wanted and needed. Of course, I gave up the job I was doing and also gave up running the DVD Writer website. For all that and more, she still fears that I might like her less for her body. She once or more said she wanted to cut off her legs. I would have if I were her. It is almost impossible for her to do sexual intercourse and have a baby in conventional ways. In South Korea, life becomes very untolerable for most women not to be able to give birth to a child. It alone can be and is a popular reason to demand divorce and more.

I was going to tell the complete story sometime anyway. To make it not any longer, that’s all what I can say for now. What I decided was I will help her “disabled” body and mind evolve to the most abled just as I survived to make myself better than those who’ve tried to destroy me. These days, I am (again) preparing for the new business (I’m the founder-owner) I can do staying 24x7 at home-office with her (and my very nice friends) and studying the latest technologies and products and the recent changes in the US government policies related to equal accessibility. Perhaps I want to make wheelchairs with built-in HDTV and DVD writers proliferate.

@DawnLoader

Don’t worry about whether I cannot express love in the way she wants and expects. I’m confident I can feel and read people’s minds and thoughts relatively very well. Though I may sound very inhuman and calculating in boards like this, I am always sensitive and accomodating to others that have not challenged my life too often. I always emphasize to her that we are “one mind same body” (popular and traditional Chinese-Korean phrase). I say “I love her” at least a few times every day though she always says it many times more. It is just that she feels too sorry and afraid that her body becomes automatically rigid and her face shows the life-old sadness even when she drops chopsticks on the floor (she trembles always and has weak and malfunctioning fingers) or hurts my arms or legs (since she cannot control and direct her legs, toes, hands and other parts precisely the way she wills).

The only thing that pops up in my mind after reading the above :

The force is strong in you and i hope it keeps strong

i think you answered and explained anything in your “story”

you have all my respect…and with your will…you will be able to achieve anything

i can not judge about her and the social life in your country…i can’t because i live in a country where disabled people have it a lott better…but as supportive as you are to her…you can give her a better life.

i know…just words…but i hope they help

Originally posted by damiandimitri
i think you answered and explained anything in your “story”

you have all my respect…and with your will…you will be able to achieve anything

i can not judge about her and the social life in your country…i can’t because i live in a country where disabled people have it a lott better…but as supportive as you are to her…you can give her a better life.

i know…just words…but i hope they help

Just the fact I can read and post here itself helps a lot. That there are countries like yours and the US with better social welfare and medical care systems gives her greater hope, too. To her, most important person had been her mother for three decades who died after 15-year struggle against breast cancer. She visited Japan around 1990 to be with her mother for surgery. Japan was very different to both her and her mother from their native country. If there can be different countries and systems, I can also create ones with enough efforts. I don’t believe in any self-righteous god-given or human-made some things to justify keeping outdated and irrational nation-states and kingdoms. So I’ll persuade her to emigrate (in the end, could take a few more years). I already made her practice English daily and re-learn Japanese (my second foreign language was German and hers was Japanese). She didn’t go to college/university because of her body though that’s not exactly the way she explains to me. We’ll probably adopt a disabled child in a few months. We both love children too much. Thanks!

no need for thanks

glad i/we can help

please don’t forget that emigration itself is hard…not every country…as free it may look…likes forreigners…

it will be hard for you both…but if you can handle it…the welfare would eassen up the things a bit

are you 2 readdy for a disabled kid…i am not judging…i just know from experience how hard it is…but ok…:bigsmile: i hope the kid makes your life shine again

Originally posted by damiandimitri
no need for thanks

glad i/we can help

please don’t forget that emigration itself is hard…not every country…as free it may look…likes forreigners…

it will be hard for you both…but if you can handle it…the welfare would eassen up the things a bit

are you 2 readdy for a disabled kid…i am not judging…i just know from experience how hard it is…but ok…:bigsmile: i hope the kid makes your life shine again

Emigration is very difficult for most South Koreans. It does not look easy and free. If it were, the current South Korean population would be 20 million, not 50 million. People sometimes risk their lives to emigrate. South Korea lost millions just because they lived in South Korea between 1950 and 1953 and the 50 million contemporary South Koreans are very aware that only an extremely small percentage of people can escape the country which is bordered only on sea and North Korea in the event of war. Emigration is also something South Korea strongly supports. Like exportation of DDR-SDRAM chips, TFT-LCD panels, and CD and DVD drives, South Korea send its people and the people emigrate for their very survival. The country collapses anytime it’s stopped. To someone like me, that it is hard to emigrate is like that it is hard to study. Emigration is much easier and takes fewer years than to change the entire existing country by myself. I’m too often threatened death and other things because I try to change this country to a better form. To have to live always inside the country to reform is also an outdated idea. It is overseas Koreans and Chinese that affect most their respective home lands in most progressive ways. Individuals are faster than groups and individuals in group-thinking systems are much faster than their mother systems if out which explains partly why so many South Korean young students fill the seats at Harvard, MIT, Stanford, etc. while the same student often could not achieve much at home.

I solemnly asked myself and her: if I cannot change one person’s life, how am I going to change the world? That question alone was enough to give me the right answer. Kenshin in Kenshin asks himself and his current and last lover: if I cannot ma-mo-ru-o (protect) the one person I love, how was I going to protect all the people out there? Kenshin joined the revolutionary samurai group to destroy Tokugawa government to found and start the Meiji era in the late 1850s and early 1860s. It was a successful revolution. If what I’m going to do for and with just one child is hard, what else will not be? I mean I’m not daring to found a large foundation donating one Giga dollars for thousands of children. There are actually more given up and nearly thrown away by the native parents in South Korea alone. Before bringing her very near my hearts for several weeks, I could hardly eat and sleep. I can after.

It’s not only walking she cannot do alone. I do cooking, washing (clothes and bodies), cleaning, exercising (part of rehabilitation?), and all the manual things to be done in and outside home. Since she knows exactly what I wanted from her, she agreed on the adoption plan. Pregnation itself is not impossible but there are too many dangerous points. It is more than often one’s innermost that makes one miserable leading to early death or happiness leading to prosperity and harmony.

Though seriously disabled physically, she is very able in mind. Most people in the online and offline communities say she is too good and like an angel. (Mentally) able people can be generous enough to smile more often and willing to help others if they can. She is the best girl I’ve seen.

The honeymoon’s not yet planned but will be to Honshu.

To me, love is that sparkling feeling when you see (or hear or feel) your loved one.

a wedding and a child …nice

when i hear you talking like this Kenshin…you know exactly what you want…you will get what you want…

Don’t worry about love and others…just be happy together