Quickly checking for errors in a burnt audio CD

Sometimes when you replay a burnt audio CD, it sounds like a man with a sore throat is singing the song instead of a lady, there are skips or there is significant noise. Of course, it would be much more convenient if you can tell in, say, 5 minutes if the burnt CD is destined to be a coaster instead of having to listen to the entire duration of the CD for such errors. Is there any quick way to check for errors such as these, apart from listening to the CD very carefully after each burning session?

For example, would doing a binary file compare on the wave files ripped from both the original/backup CD using Feurio or the image files using CloneCD work, or is it more or less a given fact that the copies will almost never be perfect 1-to-1 copies so a binary file compare will just be restating the obvious and turn up a whole mess of inconsistencies?

it sounds like a man with a sore throat is singing the song instead of a lady, there are skips or there is significant noise

If the source is a CD in good condition, that shouldn’t happen.

If you have those problems, it’s more likely due to playing issues. I mean, the data in the CDR is correct, but the player is not able to read well enough… this can happen if your player is “picky” or if the media is not very good quality or has poor compatibility, or a bit of everything…

To know if the errors are in the data, you can see if those errors are present exactly with every reader you have… (CDROM, CDRW, audio players)

would doing a binary file compare on the wave files ripped from both the original/backup

Use “Compare WAVs” tool in EAC.
The backup should be equal to the original (except offsets). Anyway, even with “equal” data in both CDs, the reader can play the CDs differently if it isn’t able to read a CD properly. Audio players interpolate (“guess”) missing data instead of muting if there are small errors.

Don’t use CloneCD for anything about audio.

a given fact that the copies will almost never be perfect 1-to-1 copies

Audio copies with modern drives are perfect (except for offsets) if the ripping process was successful. And the ripping process is usually perfect if the CD is good.
You can use Secure Mode in EAC to be sure. EAC extracts every sector twice and compares them. If they’re equal, it’s supposed that block is OK.
You can also do a “Test Device” in Feurio, but most modern drives have no problem with that test. (Program Parameters -> Test Device). It repeats a ripping 10 times, and also tries to provoke jitter errors.
If your drive returns C2 pointers (that test also show it), you can be sure that extraction was perfect if the C2-error detection layer didn’t have to correct any error.
EAC can use C2 pointers to speed up extraction and Feurio can report C2 errors.

I checked an Audio CD burnt @ 48x in Nero CD Speed. I got 0 errors & i was happy.

Later I remebered that Audio Cds don’t have C2 error info.

I am such a fool.:o

Originally posted by darshanjog
Later I remebered that Audio Cds don’t have C2 error info.

:confused: ???
C2 errors are produced at physical level (if the CD is scratched or burned with poor quality -too fast-).

Of course, if the “logic” data is modified from original because the ripping was not correct or some bug somewhere, the copy will be different from original, but good at physical level (CDSpeed test).

You can also check C2 errors ripping the CD with Feurio!
No C2-errors=perfect DAE.
C2-errors=CDR in bad condition probably

i remember reading somewhere on the forum that Audio CDs can store more data (music of course) because they don’t contain C2 & C3 error info.

Also the pops, hisses are due to lack of error correction info like c2 & c3.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

http://www.roxio.com/en/support/cdr/cderrors.html
[i]"Audio CDs use an error correction code called Cross Interleaved Reed Solomon Code or CIRC. "

"CIRC applies two levels of error correction, called known C1 and C2. C1 corrects small, random errors. C2 corrects large errors and burst errors. "

"A CD-ROM disc uses additional error detection and correction code on top of CIRC. This code is called Error Detection Code/Error Correction Code (EDC/ECC). "[/i]

So, I would say that the reason data CDs store less data is to make space for EDC/ECC data correction. C2 level “belongs” to CIRC, which is used in all kind of CDs.

Less technical explanations on how they are used in Feurio (an only audio burning program):
http://www.feurio.com/English/faq/faq_vocable_c2error.shtml

All types of cds know 2 lowlevel forms of error correction/detection: C1 and C2. Data cds have on top of this a 3rd layer of error correction/detection, sometimes referred to as C3. This 3rd layer reduces your storage space.

Edit:

Hmmm… just realized this is the same as minix said. :bigsmile: )

thanks both of you for explaining me the concepts.

My doubts are now clear for sure.

So, the AudioCD I burnt @ 48x really doesn’t have C2 errors.:bigsmile:

Just to know 700 mb cdrs can hold approximately 800 mb of audio without overburning.

Originally posted by TerminatorShawn
So, the AudioCD I burnt @ 48x really doesn’t have C2 errors.:bigsmile:

If your drive perfectly support returning C2 information to the program, yes. Otherwise, no.
You can test the C2 reporting ability using a scratched CD in CD Speed. If it reports errors, it…well, it can report errors :rolleyes: .
You can test the accuracy of the C2 reports with the DAEquality package of EAC.